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space exploration or not?

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O.T.13.:
Man i was the first one to start the quote-as-you-reply thingy, and damn i didnt know it was THAT panful when you wanna reply!


LOL

Excuse me... for your kind information:

1) Add the costs of these movies:Cleopatra $ 290.2 m, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End $300m, Spider-Man 3 $258m, Superman Returns $268.5 m, Waterworld $175 m... The films are endless, made every year, costing large sums every year... While agree the Space Stations cost billions, but are not recurrent projects.


2) The Opening Ceremony of the Olympic Games at Beijing cost $ 100 m alone. And for how long did they last? Days? Montreal, Quebec, Canada had spent C$1.61 billion on the Summer Olympics and their citizens had to repay the debts for 30 years after the Games were over. The repercussion of holding the Games had been borne by future generations. 30 years lost for a few days... Is this not a waste?

Actors are paid on an individual basis, what they do with this money concerns them. There is no law that dictates they ought to 'share' it. A large sum for ONE MAN.
not sure if i mentioned thos, but i thought i already said this, they SHOULDNT be paid so much money in the first place! its outrageous how some of them big actors make more money than better-educated engineers and doctors
Space exploration consumes money too, agree. But the benefits derived accrue to the whole world. A large sum for MANKIND.
yea i didnt disagree on that, but we got enough problems in hand, malnutrition or lack of professionals in many regions, for example. I am not saying its unimportant, it IS important, but i am saying wouldnt it be better if we, for example, try to reforest east Africa, end their starvation, build them schools and improve their living, and hence have higher productivity in that region? if enough resources are put into it, this shouldnt take more than a couple of decades or three at max. These explorations might or might not yield the expected results, yes the space exploration gave us internet and tv, but now this water they wanna find in Mars, even if they did find it, which so far they are not, how much will it cost to bring it to earth? same thing for the different life forms, there may, or may not, nothing is for granted.

In any way, that money is to be spent. But before using it, a weight must be sought. Do we spend it on a majority or a minority? Do we spend it for the long term or the short term? For a leisure activity or a necessity?


Raising prices is not a solution. Were it that easy, some of the intelligent people living on Earth would have done it long ago.  :P

If prices are raised, trade unions put pressure on employers for wage increments. Besides, people restrict their consumption when they cannot afford to pay (well, that's supposed to be our aim). Costs (i.e. wages) increase and at the same time demand decreases-- producers will cut down production and consequently employ fewer people. Supply will decrease-- there is a shortage, prices increase again (where is our aim lost now? :P). Well, fancy foods are not necessities but yea, some rich people will continue to consume them to maintain society's superiority complex. So, we'll leave the elasticity of demand... Let's assume demand remains unchanged. Unemployment also rises, trade unions lose their bargaining power-- wages can no longer be increased. They may even decrease.

So, you see. On the whole, society is worse off when the prices are increased.


* I don't know if you study Economics... I've tried to make it simpler... ::)*
well yea i did actually but its all blur now  :D and yea i remember all this supply/demand whatnot, but i was saying that if the price of lux and classy food was raised, then wouldnt this help make em save their money? well anyways, if its too much economics then nevermind lol



Money gone to waste? Can you tell me why? Because they found traces of life on Mars? They discovered other galaxies? They could explore our Solar System? Cause we know a comet is approaching us? Spend huge sums to reach on the moon, and stop there itself? Would this not have been a waste?
well yea they found the traces and the galaxies, now what?

Just cause you're rich doesn't also mean you have the right to throw this money into fancies and follies.  :P
yea thas ryte :P  they should spend it on the regions with potential!



If by removing this wasted money from warfare where people die in millions into another 'waste', as you say, space, then yes, it's much more sensible.
It's better to remove a dagger from a monkey's hand and give it to a donkey. The monkey can surely hurt more people with the dagger; the donkey has no hands to do the same.  :D
lol yea, thas EXACTLY what i meant  :P


You can't build a villa if you have no land first, can you?? Cement is just a raw material, a resource. Money is only a financial resource. Land is the BASE. Brains are the essential, you said it. What's the use of having money if you have no brain to be able to use it properly? Again, it's a dagger in a monkey's hand.  :P
okay either am lost, or you agreed with what i said


Alright, for this one, I'm just gonna ask you a simple question.
You are on a road. A truck is coming at top speed in your direction. You are running away from it to save your life. A double decker is also rushing in the opposite direction. What will you do? Solve the first problem then the second? You will first run away from the truck, towards the double decker and then later, run away from the double decker, towards the truck?  :P Or will you move to the side?



I disagree here. We should be dealing with emergencies first and then move on to other problems with less impact.

We should start by identifying the emergencies. I think you already know how.  :)
well yea, emergencies, wouldnt these be prevent global warming and eliminate famine?

Alpha:

--- Quote ---Man i was the first one to start the quote-as-you-reply thingy, and damn i didnt know it was THAT panful when you wanna reply!
--- End quote ---

Couldn't you make it simpler to distinguish?  :P


--- Quote ---not sure if i mentioned thos, but i thought i already said this, they SHOULDNT be paid so much money in the first place! its outrageous how some of them big actors make more money than better-educated engineers and doctors
--- End quote ---

What I meant in simpler terms:
You say money is not enough to solve socio-economic problems. You agree actors shouldn't be paid that much money. I know. Then, remove money from THERE, why should we remove from space?



--- Quote ---yea i didnt disagree on that, but we got enough problems in hand, malnutrition or lack of professionals in many regions, for example. I am not saying its unimportant, it IS important, but i am saying wouldnt it be better if we, for example, try to reforest east Africa, end their starvation, build them schools and improve their living, and hence have higher productivity in that region? if enough resources are put into it, this shouldnt take more than a couple of decades or three at max.
--- End quote ---


We also have so many problems in our own houses, then why should we spend our time and resources solving society's problems? Why should we spend money helping other nations when there are so many problems in our own countries? Why should we spend so much to cross the oceans when we have so many problems here on land? Why should we worry about our neighbours? Don't we have enough worries ourselves?

We have so many problems here on Earth, then why should we spend so much money in space? WHY?
We should explore space BECAUSE we have so many problems here on Earth.

Reaching new heights, crossing boundaries and going beyond the unexpected often creates new opportunities for finding solutions and identifying the inputs (or resources) needed to implement these solutions. More than that, it brings back hope to the starting point. Light from outside the cave can help to get rid of the darkness which is inside the cave.

Deforestation, famine, poverty, overpopulation, unemployment, the economic crisis, all of these problems diverge from the SAME source-- WE LACK RESOURCES.



I correct something here. Money is not a resource, but a financial asset, economically speaking. We can't ignore the economic concept since it is directly related to rational. Money is merely an asset, a medium of exchange, it is not a raw material. Money itself does not bring about any output. Rather it helps to acquire the resources needed.

Resources found on Earth do not suffice for our needs. We need room for expansion. Till how long will humanity keep sucking the last few drops of blood because of which our globe still sustains life? For how long will we remain confined here, dependent on what our soil, skies and oceans can offer? What is there wrong if we are looking for other resources in space?

We need the resources in the Solar System and galaxies to be able to alleviate problems HERE. Humanity is a growing and evolving species while the Earth does not grow in size. Overpopulation-- we need place for the surplus people. Where else do we go searching for place if not in space? Now don't tell me people should be using more condoms. Prevention will bear result in the long term. Our problem is ALREADY here.

So what if it would take a long time to find some other habitable place (which is unlikely) or 'build' a place in space capable of sustaining life (which is more likely)? The problem IS there, we should make a start somewhere.

Space exploration triggers research and development. It catalyzes technological advancement, including power, computing, nanotechnology, biotechnology, communications, networking, robotics... It creates a growing need for more educated people, for astronauts, engineers, astronomers-- it creates employment. Evolving technology and greater brain power can help us solve problems HERE on Earth.

The world's oil and gas reserves are being depleted. That's why we should explore space to find other substitutes.



--- Quote ---These explorations might or might not yield the expected results, yes the space exploration gave us internet and tv, but now this water they wanna find in Mars, even if they did find it, which so far they are not, how much will it cost to bring it to earth? same thing for the different life forms, there may, or may not, nothing is for granted.
--- End quote ---


You are worried about the cost? What about lives??
Traces of water, which is a key ingredient to life, have been found on Mars and the moons of Jupiter. Maybe now we don't have the means or need to bring that water down to Earth. But what will happen if our water reserves here are completely dried up? From where will we find more water to satisfy our future generations' daily needs?

Uncertainty-- to me, uncertainty has been playing a lame role in history. Our earlier hunter gatherers were not sure they would find food in the seas and oceans if they left searching for it on land. Christopher Columbus didn't know there would be a vast continent behind the horizon. Earlier astronomers either didn't know there would be other planets sharing our Solar System.

This is the very essence of exploration-- we explore BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW. Because there may and may not be. Our problems here on Earth NEED to be solves because there is NOWHERE to go yet.  Exploration has been the greatest justification since ever. Till we do not EXPLORE space, we will continue to gaze at the stars from the ground and keep wondering about what's there above our heads.


My friend, Stephen Hawking, wants to help me with his quote (Alright, am kidding  :P):

"We once thought we were at the centre of the Universe. Then we thought the sun was. Eventually, we realised we were just on the edge of one of billions of galaxies. Soon we may have to humbly accept that our 3D universe is just one of many multi-dimensional worlds."



--- Quote ---well yea they found the traces and the galaxies, now what?
--- End quote ---

Now they have to find ways to utilize the untapped energy that can be derived from space, the mineral resources of the Moon.
"A two-kilometer-wide asteroid holds more metal than all the ore mined on Earth since the beginning of civilization. Half of asteroids are water rich."
We have here on Earth a scary demand for building materials and a pitiful supply. We can use space materials for our own construction purposes on Earth, for agriculture, metallurgy, pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, welding, shipping, mining,... Brief, everything.  ;)

Mostly everything can be made in space at a cheaper cost using materials from there. Opportunities for us to expand, to create jobs, to do business and accumulate wealth can be created there in space, especially when we do not have enough space to expand down here.



--- Quote ---yea thas ryte :P  they should spend it on the regions with potential!
--- End quote ---

Right, on the regions with potential-- space is a region with INFINITE potential!

Excerpt:

"The planets and moons bare the scars of a tumultuous history. None of them have gone through their lengthy existence unscathed by the violent impact of asteroids and comets.
Uranus was toppled off its axis by a giant planetoid the size of our own world and its moon Miranda was torn apart and reassembled in the process. Mars is a world that was murdered in its early infancy before it had any chance of completely fulfilling its promise of becoming an abode of life. Most of its crust and atmosphere were flayed and ejected into space by impacts with giant asteroids and comets.

Towards the late nineteenth and throughout the twentieth centuries some one hundred and fifty impact craters have been discovered on our own planetary abode. In the twentieth century two impacts occurred in Eastern Russia. On June 30th, 1908, Moscow escaped destruction by three hours and four thousand kilometres—when an object some 70 meters in diameter impacted the Siberian region of Tunguska with the explosive yield of 1000 Hiroshima bombs. On February 12th, 1947, another Russian city had a still narrower escape, when the second great meteorite of the last century detonated less than four hundred kilometres from Vladivostok in a rain of rock and iron. On August 10th, 1972 the Earth survived a near direct hit and escaped with a mere flesh wound when a meteorite zoomed over the state of Wyoming and grazed the upper atmosphere and bounced back into space before thousands of eyewitnesses. Its blazing trail was even captured on film.

In the early 1980s evidence slowly accumulated that sixty-five million years ago the reign of the dinosaurs ended with a huge bang and ensuing fire storm. Before that violent mass extinctions occurred like clockwork throughout the evolutionary history of life on Earth.

The Moon, a world of on our very doorstep, provides a clear warning for all to see that our world is living on borrowed time. In the chronicle of Gervase an eyewitness account was given of a massive impact on the eastern limb of the Moon that occurred on June 25th, 1178. Evidence is also coming to light that June, despite our fondness for this month because of weddings and the promise of summer holidays to come, holds potential dangers for humanity. The Taurid beta meteor shower is one we must study in detail. It is the progenitor of both the Tunguska fireball and the object that created the blast recorded by Gervase, and lurking in its wake are more potential disasters to come.

In the late 20th century archaeological evidence has come to light that many late Bronze Age civilizations may have met their demise in a rain of fire from the sky. Back in July, 1994 during the week of the 25th anniversary marking man's first steps on the Moon the heavens provided a massive fireworks display of their own to mark the occasion. The planet Jupiter sustained twenty individual impacts from the fragments left over from the disintegration of the comet Shoemaker–Levy 9. Any one of these impacts would have been sufficient in themselves to wipe life off the face of our globe in a real Extinction Level Event (E.L.E).
Yet despite all this accumulated evidence we continue to go about our humdrum worldly concerns, abandoning any attention to the heavens and the dangers that lurk in the local celestial neighbourhood. We face the celestial equivalent of a 9/11. Humanity can no longer ignore the objective reality that its long term existence is imperilled. We either become a spacefaring civilization or face the fate of the dinosaurs."


Talking of money, $ 12 million is spent per hour in Iraq by the US government while the NASA takes less then 1% of the US budget.

To what extent do we depend on the internet? How many businesses will shrink without it? What would be the state of our fields and farms were there no satellites to predict weather changes? What would have happened to the ozone hole? The Sun will boil our oceans in 50 million years. Where then do we go?

Exploring space helps us to know about planets, understand their functioning, identify the factors that affect them. Our Earth is a planet too, isn't it?
External factors can affect us all here. What happens there in space can influence what happens here on ground. Space is not OUTSIDE, WE are inside.
Space exploration is not spending money on what is not a part of us, WE are a part of the universe.

Exploring space may cost money. But NOT exploring space is much, much more expensive.


--- Quote ---lol yea, thas EXACTLY what i meant  :P

okay either am lost, or you agreed with what i said
--- End quote ---

No, I still stick to what I had said earlier.  :P
Brains are more important than resources. Investing twice, thrice, a thousand times, a billion times into a failing project does not make it a successful one.

The world has about a 60 trillion/year economy. We do not lack money. What we lack are proper planning, fruitful efforts, productive use of this money. Equal distribution, better thinking and responsible citizens-- these are the real ingredients for a more peaceful and better world.
Use cement, wood, steel, glass, thatches, leaves, or whatever you want, if you don't have land, you would better throw all your materials in the ocean.  :P
If you don't have the essential ingredients, you are just throwing your money away.


--- Quote ---well yea, emergencies, wouldnt these be prevent global warming and eliminate famine?
--- End quote ---

Can we prevent Global Warming without exploring space?? I've already discussed about the other problems above.

Even a slight knowledge about what is bigger and more powerful than us can help us bring great changes to OUR lives, OUR problems. We all know Nature's Law: Survival of the Fittest. The race which explores, opens new doors, expands, colonizes, dares the difficult and softens the hard is the race that survives. I have not invented it, history is witness. Since the beginning of time, the weaker ones have been conquered or destroyed by the stronger ones. Civilizations that have learnt to survive on Earth are those whose existence have been carried forward to the future. We are exploring because we are learning to survive in space.


Leave alone all the reasons. Our own human nature pushes us to explore, as Master said. (By the way, where is he lost?  :P)
Life is worth living till life is worth discovering. Today humanity has the potential to seek answers to questions that before were unimaginable.
We wonder, look out for the undiscovered and step in, crossing all frontiers.
We explore beyond the Earth for the same reason that Mount Everest was climbed:
"Because it is there."

 :)

zara:
whoa it just made me dizz off damn...soo long.....shoot loll

Monica:
 :o :o :o :o :o :o GOSHHHHHH!! U people write A LOT !!!!!!!!

WOOOOOOOOOH!

nid404:
I won't get into the debate...it involves a lot of reading of the previous posts :P
But the idea of space exploration really fascinates me....when I was a kid, I wanted to work with NASA :D

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