Author Topic: Do u think Girls & Boys shld study in the SAME class or SEPARATED classes ?  (Read 23685 times)

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From experience, I would say coeducation. In theory, however, I'd say segregated education systems are better. As you all have seemingly shown, coeducation is indeed the need of today's world. Then why is apparently, the idealistic segregated system which keep many of our (in reference to most people here anyway, obviously not all) cultural and religious ideals in check, not working?

I think it's because for our ideals to stand valid and with possibility of being implemented successfully, there should be a proper foundation for that to happen. Here, I'll speak specifically for Muslim idealistic religio-social infrastructure (or any other religion that exhorts segregation of sexes)--if we want that boys and girls prosper in their respective places and yet maintain minimum contact, then we have to face up to two things.

Firstly, nothing else in our society works to promote that. I'm not saying I'm following this path like no other, but let's be fair to the ideology: segregation of sexes is not just studying in separate buildings/classrooms. It takes in a lot more--most of the TV shows/animations we watch today not only defy such principles, we can't even watch most of them for pure amusement too, even as a girl--if we're going to follow through the basics, that is. So many women and men are, by the standard of our religion, scantily dressed on television. Listening to a woman sing (ignoring the dispute on musical instruments themselves) is another violation. Magazines and most other printed media must alter their advertising campaigns. I will not exempt Middle East: hijab, the forerunning principle in segregation of sexes is not actually followed when it comes to advertisements and movies. Someone who knows the detailed requirements of hijab can understand what I mean.

Furthermore, on a national level there is no arrangement for women and men to go through their day-to-day life without having to interact with one another. No women-only institutes for higher education exist and though it may exist in Middle East, in most other Muslim cultures there is a lack of feasibility in segregation in most work places and hence men and women come into close contact. Not to mention that internet is something that cannot be 'censored', and it opens doors for most of to things we normally cannot access--even if the government decided to block all profane websites which could have objectionable material, even restrict the search results of images to those acceptable in nature, online friendships between people cannot be stopped.

Secondly, if it's not obvious enough, the current world we live in does have provisions for segregation of sexes in most contexts and it would require a complete makeover of our social, economic, educational and political sector as well as some very tricky censorship of the media. And then a very decisive brainwashing of many inhabitants.

And not as a third thing but as an independent point: whether you were born in Madinatul Nabi in 10 AH or in Las Vegas in 2000 AD, there is always a significant percentage of people who will not follow the cultural mindset. In the ideal Islamic state, something we can never achieve, there was one reported case of r*pe and more than dozen acts of adultery. Yes, small in comparison to our current setup but it proves my point. The probability of students/people indulging in acts dictated profane by any standard, will never be 1 or 0. Not until the world is to sustain anyhow; it's a violation of the study of sociology to assume all inhabitants will be uniformly 'good' or 'bad'. So be it a segregated schooling system or a coeducational one, there will be sex-driven teenagers in the former and 'pious' teenagers in the latter. And often, the ratios are surprising.

So, yes, I would support segregation of sexes and education in that context, but as you can see it can only make sense if my ideal image of an Islamic state is 'somewhat' followed, which even in Middle East, is not sufficient. Not because of the laws themselves but because people find no need to segregate sexes in their day-to-day lives, hence the system would only work if there was actually an understanding of the fact that it's needed. Education isn't ruined simply because you're studying with dudes or with chicks, so stressing on education makes no sense unless we as a community who believe in such principles, actually desire their implementation rather than accept them as a cultural burden we must carry.

To illustrate this, I'll give a personal example. My sister is a chain smoker, so there are cigarettes lying around all the time. She's (currently) in perfect health too and claims smoking helps her lose weight and stay sane. There are times when I feel like I want to die and need a break, and it would seem that I have enough curiosity to smoke a cigarette. I've even observed a cigarette itself once or twice, sniffing it out of curiosity. But what keeps me from actually lighting the cigarette? My resolve that I must not smoke no matter what, because it's dangerous. Our society does not, for the most part, have the resolve that we must not indulge in intimate relationships with the opposite sex outside marriage no matter what. Even if we do, we have no reason for it. And the reason, God, is so fragile for us that even girls who do not involve themselves in relations with boys, find themselves battling inside all the time and feel inferior. Hence, they emerge as weak people, demeaning their value as students and people alike.

Anyway, back to the debate itself. :P So yes, in our current world setup I prefer coeducation. From my own experience, I studied in coeducation up till fifth grade, after which I started studying in a girls only school. I hate that school from the depth of my heart; the politics and drama was irritating. And in my time there, there were two astounding incidents which opened my eyes to gruel reality of single-sex schools--an older student ran away from school with her date in his car, pretending he's her relative. He took the opportunity the girl underwent severe sexual abuse--for the sake of the forum's pleasant atmosphere, I will not go into details. She was found injured with her skull cracked in front of a college's gate--possibly nude. During my second last year at the school, another girl ran away with a boy. But here's the real horror: she was a sixth grader, 11 years old and her 'boyfriend' was an A-Level student, at least 17 years old. And she didn't just go on a date, she actually ran away and started to live with him 'because her parents didn't understand'.

For my A-Levels I went to a coeducational institute and found myself set free--two most amazing years of my life. There was politics and drama, as usual, but since there was a large number of guys, it could never take over my life. I had no male friends, only acquaintances whom I could speak with occasionally. Because I was the only girl in my batch who performed hijab, guys mostly avoided me--yet, I found myself a place there.

The difference in being in a single-sex school and a coeducational institute was simple: if I was to talk about boys in the former school, there would be scandals. Teases. Allegations. And sometimes, if you're in the 'other' kind of crowd, they were start drooling on random boys like their cousins or family friends. Or boys they met in preschool and have/had a crush on. Switch to coeducational: talk of boys as if they're 'normal' existence. No one will accuse you of crushes, dating or the like if you comment how XYZ is so bitter in class. Guys being perverts in coeducational? Not usually. Mark who you are, aka what kind of relationship you want to indulge in, and guys will just hanker after someone who is available. Like desperate teenage girls from the single-sex schools.

Again, to say all single-sex school students are desperate for the opposite sex or that nothing ever goes wrong in a coeducational school is ridiculous. In my two years I saw many unacceptable public displays of affection, but once the administration took charge of the situation, such incidences started to minimize.

xD Sorry for the long post. If someone actually finished this, you're brave. :P
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 05:29:25 am by Chingoo »
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Offline M-H

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I wish to meet you someday. We could talk day and night :D xD
That sounds romantic. ::)
All that is on earth will perish:
But will abide (forever) the Face of thy Lord--full of Majesty, Bounty & Honor.
Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?


Qura'n, Chapter 55: The Beneficent, Verses 26-28

Offline astarmathsandphysics

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In England I know, boys and girls do better when they study separately but generally parents prefer boys to go co-ed and girls to go single sex.

Offline Romeesa-Chan

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Re: Do u think Girls & Boys shld study in the SAME class or SEPARATED classes ?
« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2011, 04:06:45 pm »
From experience, I would say coeducation. In theory, however, I'd say segregated education systems are better. As you all have seemingly shown, coeducation is indeed the need of today's world. Then why is apparently, the idealistic segregated system which keep many of our (in reference to most people here anyway, obviously not all) cultural and religious ideals in check, not working?

I think it's because for our ideals to stand valid and with possibility of being implemented successfully, there should be a proper foundation for that to happen. Here, I'll speak specifically for Muslim idealistic religio-social infrastructure (or any other religion that exhorts segregation of sexes)--if we want that boys and girls prosper in their respective places and yet maintain minimum contact, then we have to face up to two things.

Firstly, nothing else in our society works to promote that. I'm not saying I'm following this path like no other, but let's be fair to the ideology: segregation of sexes is not just studying in separate buildings/classrooms. It takes in a lot more--most of the TV shows/animations we watch today not only defy such principles, we can't even watch most of them for pure amusement too, even as a girl--if we're going to follow through the basics, that is. So many women and men are, by the standard of our religion, scantily dressed on television. Listening to a woman sing (ignoring the dispute on musical instruments themselves) is another violation. Magazines and most other printed media must alter their advertising campaigns. I will not exempt Middle East: hijab, the forerunning principle in segregation of sexes is not actually followed when it comes to advertisements and movies. Someone who knows the detailed requirements of hijab can understand what I mean.

Furthermore, on a national level there is no arrangement for women and men to go through their day-to-day life without having to interact with one another. No women-only institutes for higher education exist and though it may exist in Middle East, in most other Muslim cultures there is a lack of feasibility in segregation in most work places and hence men and women come into close contact. Not to mention that internet is something that cannot be 'censored', and it opens doors for most of to things we normally cannot access--even if the government decided to block all profane websites which could have objectionable material, even restrict the search results of images to those acceptable in nature, online friendships between people cannot be stopped.

Secondly, if it's not obvious enough, the current world we live in does have provisions for segregation of sexes in most contexts and it would require a complete makeover of our social, economic, educational and political sector as well as some very tricky censorship of the media. And then a very decisive brainwashing of many inhabitants.

And not as a third thing but as an independent point: whether you were born in Madinatul Nabi in 10 AH or in Las Vegas in 2000 AD, there is always a significant percentage of people who will not follow the cultural mindset. In the ideal Islamic state, something we can never achieve, there was one reported case of r*pe and more than dozen acts of adultery. Yes, small in comparison to our current setup but it proves my point. The probability of students/people indulging in acts dictated profane by any standard, will never be 1 or 0. Not until the world is to sustain anyhow; it's a violation of the study of sociology to assume all inhabitants will be uniformly 'good' or 'bad'. So be it a segregated schooling system or a coeducational one, there will be sex-driven teenagers in the former and 'pious' teenagers in the latter. And often, the ratios are surprising.

So, yes, I would support segregation of sexes and education in that context, but as you can see it can only make sense if my ideal image of an Islamic state is 'somewhat' followed, which even in Middle East, is not sufficient. Not because of the laws themselves but because people find no need to segregate sexes in their day-to-day lives, hence the system would only work if there was actually an understanding of the fact that it's needed. Education isn't ruined simply because you're studying with dudes or with chicks, so stressing on education makes no sense unless we as a community who believe in such principles, actually desire their implementation rather than accept them as a cultural burden we must carry.

To illustrate this, I'll give a personal example. My sister is a chain smoker, so there are cigarettes lying around all the time. She's (currently) in perfect health too and claims smoking helps her lose weight and stay sane. There are times when I feel like I want to die and need a break, and it would seem that I have enough curiosity to smoke a cigarette. I've even observed a cigarette itself once or twice, sniffing it out of curiosity. But what keeps me from actually lighting the cigarette? My resolve that I must not smoke no matter what, because it's dangerous. Our society does not, for the most part, have the resolve that we must not indulge in intimate relationships with the opposite sex outside marriage no matter what. Even if we do, we have no reason for it. And the reason, God, is so fragile for us that even girls who do not involve themselves in relations with boys, find themselves battling inside all the time and feel inferior. Hence, they emerge as weak people, demeaning their value as students and people alike.

Anyway, back to the debate itself. :P So yes, in our current world setup I prefer coeducation. From my own experience, I studied in coeducation up till fifth grade, after which I started studying in a girls only school. I hate that school from the depth of my heart; the politics and drama was irritating. And in my time there, there were two astounding incidents which opened my eyes to gruel reality of single-sex schools--an older student ran away from school with her date in his car, pretending he's her relative. He took the opportunity the girl underwent severe sexual abuse--for the sake of the forum's pleasant atmosphere, I will not go into details. She was found injured with her skull cracked in front of a college's gate--possibly nude. During my second last year at the school, another girl ran away with a boy. But here's the real horror: she was a sixth grader, 11 years old and her 'boyfriend' was an A-Level student, at least 17 years old. And she didn't just go on a date, she actually ran away and started to live with him 'because her parents didn't understand'.

For my A-Levels I went to a coeducational institute and found myself set free--two most amazing years of my life. There was politics and drama, as usual, but since there was a large number of guys, it could never take over my life. I had no male friends, only acquaintances whom I could speak with occasionally. Because I was the only girl in my batch who performed hijab, guys mostly avoided me--yet, I found myself a place there.

The difference in being in a single-sex school and a coeducational institute was simple: if I was to talk about boys in the former school, there would be scandals. Teases. Allegations. And sometimes, if you're in the 'other' kind of crowd, they were start drooling on random boys like their cousins or family friends. Or boys they met in preschool and have/had a crush on. Switch to coeducational: talk of boys as if they're 'normal' existence. No one will accuse you of crushes, dating or the like if you comment how XYZ is so bitter in class. Guys being perverts in coeducational? Not usually. Mark who you are, aka what kind of relationship you want to indulge in, and guys will just hanker after someone who is available. Like desperate teenage girls from the single-sex schools.

Again, to say all single-sex school students are desperate for the opposite sex or that nothing ever goes wrong in a coeducational school is ridiculous. In my two years I saw many unacceptable public displays of affection, but once the administration took charge of the situation, such incidences started to minimize.

xD Sorry for the long post. If someone actually finished this, you're brave. :P

Agreed, my friend. ;)

I had no male friends, only acquaintances whom I could speak with occasionally. Because I was the only girl in my batch who performed hijab, guys mostly avoided me--yet, I found myself a place there.

Same here.

It's funny seeing that most of the 'Muslim' guys were put off by girls wearing hijab. ::)

Not that I mind though. ;D

Just makes me worry about the future generation. ::)
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Offline Chingoo

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Re: Do u think Girls & Boys shld study in the SAME class or SEPARATED classes ?
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2011, 09:31:55 am »
It's funny seeing that most of the 'Muslim' guys were put off by girls wearing hijab. ::)

Not that I mind though. ;D

Just makes me worry about the future generation. ::)

I know! Exactly my feelings ::) It just shows that boys only talk to girls if they've got something to show...or a strong majority, anyhow. It's also possible that some of them don't want to come across as offensive or intrusive which would in turn cause them to look as perverts, which actually makes me feel special. :P
All that is on earth will perish:
But will abide (forever) the Face of thy Lord--full of Majesty, Bounty & Honor.
Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?


Qura'n, Chapter 55: The Beneficent, Verses 26-28

Offline Banana

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Re: Do u think Girls & Boys shld study in the SAME class or SEPARATED classes ?
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2011, 01:53:32 pm »
I read it through!  8)

Interesting points though... I think single-sex schools are more likely to be 'prosperous' in terms of studies; though no denying the fact that coeducation increases class competition....

Coeducation can come later in Uni when people finally get a grip over their wild minds...  ::)
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Offline Romeesa-Chan

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Re: Do u think Girls & Boys shld study in the SAME class or SEPARATED classes ?
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2011, 02:10:17 pm »
I know! Exactly my feelings ::) It just shows that boys only talk to girls if they've got something to show...or a strong majority, anyhow. It's also possible that some of them don't want to come across as offensive or intrusive which would in turn cause them to look as perverts, which actually makes me feel special. :P
True that, it's possible that could be the case as well. :P

Coeducation can come later in Uni when people finally get a grip over their wild minds...  ::)

It will be too hard to adjust then. It's better if they get used to it from high school. Imo.
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Re: Do u think Girls & Boys shld study in the SAME class or SEPARATED classes ?
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2011, 02:16:20 pm »

It will be too hard to adjust then. It's better if they get used to it from high school. Imo.


Adjust? LOL one year and they'll be fine...its a win win situation  ::)
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Re: Do u think Girls & Boys shld study in the SAME class or SEPARATED classes ?
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2011, 02:34:39 pm »
Adjust? LOL one year and they'll be fine...its a win win situation  ::)
In that one year, there'll be too many loses.
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Offline Banana

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Re: Do u think Girls & Boys shld study in the SAME class or SEPARATED classes ?
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2011, 03:52:25 pm »
In that one year, there'll be too many loses.

Losses? Studies you mean? :-\
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Re: Do u think Girls & Boys shld study in the SAME class or SEPARATED classes ?
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2011, 05:06:45 pm »
Losses? Studies you mean? :-\
When both the genders are exposed to each other for the first time, they go wild. Literally.

Although, it depends on the individual's choice and desire, there's always peer pressure.

Deviation from studies, moral behaviour and loss of family trust.

They ought to be 'used' to both gender's company before hand, imo.

On the other hand, I always prefer segregation to be maintained.
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Offline bulono

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if the school can control the students then co education is better...but without proper control over students co education can be disastrous...even the studying students will be spoilt...