IGCSE/GCSE/O & A Level/IB/University Student Forum

Qualification => Subject Doubts => IGCSE/ GCSE => Math => Topic started by: moon on October 20, 2009, 12:37:35 pm

Title: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: moon on October 20, 2009, 12:37:35 pm
plz, can any body help me in math paper 4 Jun.09 question 11 d (i,ii) ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: wassup on October 20, 2009, 12:58:00 pm
11(d)(i) (n(n+1))/2 + ((n+1)(n+2))/2
         =(n^2+n+n^2+2n+n+2)/2
         =(2n^2+4n+2)/2
         =(2(n^2+2n+1))/2
         =n^2+2n+1
         So, n^2+2n+1=(n+1)^2

       (ii) (n+1)^2=3481
             n^2+2n+1=3481
             n^2+2n-3480=0
             n=(-2+-underroot(2^2-4*1*-3480))/2
             n=(-2+-underroot(13924))/2
             n=(-2+-118)/2
             So, n=58, -60
             n=58 (It can't be negative)
             Two terms will be n, (n+1)
             =58, 59
             (58(58+1))/2=1711
             (59(59+1))/2=1770
             Answer=1711 and 1770
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: moon on October 20, 2009, 01:02:13 pm
thanks a lot :) :)
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: wassup on October 20, 2009, 01:03:00 pm
welcome
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: moon on November 02, 2009, 04:51:10 pm
11(d)(i) (n(n+1))/2 + ((n+1)(n+2))/2
         =(n^2+n+n^2+2n+n+2)/2
         =(2n^2+4n+2)/2
         =(2(n^2+2n+1))/2
         =n^2+2n+1
         So, n^2+2n+1=(n+1)^2

       (ii) (n+1)^2=3481
             n^2+2n+1=3481
             n^2+2n-3480=0
             n=(-2+-underroot(2^2-4*1*-3480))/2
             n=(-2+-underroot(13924))/2
             n=(-2+-118)/2
             So, n=58, -60
             n=58 (It can't be negative)
             Two terms will be n, (n+1)
             =58, 59
             (58(58+1))/2=1711
             (59(59+1))/2=1770
             Answer=1711 and 1770

Please explain both parts still didn't get it ...
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: moon on November 02, 2009, 04:57:29 pm
Please I need help in JUNE 2009 Q2(d)
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: wassup on November 02, 2009, 05:17:20 pm
Please explain both parts still didn't get it ...

It's given that the nth term is n(n+1)/k where k comes out to be 2.

so, (n+1)th term will be (n+1)(n+2)/k where k is 2. (v'll add 1 because it's n+1 and not n)

so v'll do this now:
 
         (n(n+1))/2 + ((n+1)(n+2))/2
         =(n^2+n+n^2+2n+n+2)/2
         =(2n^2+4n+2)/2
         =(2(n^2+2n+1))/2
         =n^2+2n+1
         So, n^2+2n+1=(n+1)^2

Now v have to find 2 consecutive terms with sum of 3481.

v got frm d above ans that the sum of two consecutive nos. is (n+1)^2

now v'll use that and make it equal to 3481 as given below

             (n+1)^2=3481
             n^2+2n+1=3481
             n^2+2n-3480=0
             n=(-2+-underroot(2^2-4*1*-3480))/2
             n=(-2+-underroot(13924))/2
             n=(-2+-118)/2
             So, n=58, -60
             n=58 (It can't be negative)
             Two terms will be n, (n+1)
             =58, 59
             (58(58+1))/2=1711
             (59(59+1))/2=1770
             Answer=1711 and 1770

hope u get it now!! :)
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: nid404 on November 02, 2009, 05:18:53 pm
Please I need help in JUNE 2009 Q2(d)

The total count was 148 for 50 rolls.

148=50X2.96

so 10 rolls.....count will be 10x...if x is considered to be the mean

together for sixty rolls

148+10x/60=2.95
therefore x=2.9
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: @d!_†oX!© on November 02, 2009, 05:20:04 pm
see its quite simple:

mean for 50 rolls is 2.96(found in c part)
mean for 60 rolls is 2.95(given)

so to find the mean for the extra 10 throws....:

[(60*2.95)-(50*2.96)]/10
=>29/10
=>2.9

do u get it bro???
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: holychalice on November 02, 2009, 05:20:17 pm
c u get 2.96 as ur mean i guess in c part  outta 50 times
d mean after 50 +10=60 is 2.95

so (148+10x)/60 = 2.95
148+10x = 2.95*60
10x = 177-148
x=29/10
x=2.9
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: cooldude on November 02, 2009, 05:21:17 pm
Please I need help in JUNE 2009 Q2(d)

im gonna use | for the summation (sigma) symbol
we knw that Mean=|fx/|f

therefore the sum of the 60 dice rolls is=Mean*|f
=> 2.95*60=177
the sum of the 50 dice rolls-Mean*|f
=> 2.96 (found in part c)*50=148
therefore the sum of the last 10 rolls=177-148=29
therefore the mean of the 10 rolls=|fx/|f
=>29/10=2.90
okay temme if u dnt get nething?

          
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: SGVaibhav on November 02, 2009, 05:23:11 pm
why does it have to be june 2009?
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: wassup on November 02, 2009, 05:25:10 pm
Please I need help in JUNE 2009 Q2(d)

c) Mean score for 50 rolls = ((15*1)+(10*2)+(7*3)+(5*4)+(6*5)+(7*6))/50
                                   = 2.96

d) Mean score for 60 rolls = 2.95

60*2.95 = 177
50*2.96 = 148

So, 177-148 = 29

Mean of 10 rolls = 29/10
                      = 2.9


  
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: nid404 on November 02, 2009, 05:26:22 pm
lol 5 answers to that question........haha
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: @d!_†oX!© on November 02, 2009, 05:26:33 pm
man!!!!!
after so many explanations anyone can understand it!!!
this shows how eager ppl at sf are to help others!!!
Thanks alot cooldude, nid, manbir, wassup and me too!!!

By the way moon....tll us if u didn't understand anything!!u'll have another 10 ppl tryina explain it to u!!
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: Ghost Of Highbury on November 02, 2009, 05:27:47 pm
man!!!!!
after so many explanations anyone can understand it!!!
this shows how eager ppl at sf are to help others!!!
Thanks alot cooldude, nid, manbir, wassup and me too!!!

By the way moon....tll us if u didn't understand anything!!u'll have another 10 ppl tryina explain it to u!!

u may add me too!
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: @d!_†oX!© on November 02, 2009, 05:29:29 pm
u may add me too!
hawww!!!!but i didn't se uu anywhere on this thread aadi??!!!
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: Ghost Of Highbury on November 02, 2009, 05:34:07 pm
hawww!!!!but i didn't se uu anywhere on this thread aadi??!!!

i meant, u can add me to the 10 ppl.

"haaaww"...hahahaha..!!!..man!!..lolzz...
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: @d!_†oX!© on November 02, 2009, 05:36:42 pm
ohhhh
ohhkkk.....!!!!!
cool!!!
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: moon on November 02, 2009, 06:14:23 pm
At last!!!!! I understood that.but I still think that the puzzle question Q11 d(i)&(ii) was the hardest one in June 2009.Isn't it ??? ??? ONCE AGAIN THANK U VERY MUCH FOR HELPING ME.
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: wassup on November 02, 2009, 06:19:03 pm
At last!!!!! I understood that.but I still think that the puzzle question Q11 d(i)&(ii) was the hardest one in June 2009.Isn't it ??? ??? ONCE AGAIN THANK U VERY MUCH FOR HELPING ME.

u got q11??
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: moon on November 02, 2009, 06:30:56 pm
ya, I got it after long explanation
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: moon on November 02, 2009, 06:48:04 pm
Ya Thank u :)
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: lol on November 03, 2009, 08:04:11 am
Can someone help me with Question 5 c i. When i was checking my answers I differentiated the equation (x/2)-(2/x) and got 1/2+2x^-2, which in the question gives me a tangent of 0.75, however this does not seem to be an acceptable answer in the mark scheme.
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: Ghost Of Highbury on November 03, 2009, 08:09:56 am
which year/session/paper/question no. ??
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: lol on November 03, 2009, 08:11:01 am
Paper 4 June 2009 (the topic of this forum :p)
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: Ghost Of Highbury on November 03, 2009, 08:11:26 am
Paper 4 June 2009 (the topic of this forum :p)
igcse maths?...
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: @d!_†oX!© on November 03, 2009, 08:16:55 am
u need to draw a tangent at the point x=2 on the graph....
and then find the gradient by y2-y1/x2-x1

see the graph here....now just take out the gradient
no need for differentiation!!
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: lol on November 03, 2009, 08:23:46 am
Yep IGCSE 0580 Maths Paper 4 June 2009

Yea I could do it that way, but I just want to check using differentiation because i'm going to need to be able to do that way later. Also sometimes my tangents aren't very accurate so I just want to be able to use differentiation to check it.

Thanks
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: @d!_†oX!© on November 03, 2009, 08:27:42 am
ohhkkk....ur welcome
but i cant help u with differentiation....aadi or shreycool may help u...i dont do add. maths!!
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: Ghost Of Highbury on November 03, 2009, 08:28:46 am
Yep IGCSE 0580 Maths Paper 4 June 2009

Yea I could do it that way, but I just want to check using differentiation because i'm going to need to be able to do that way later. Also sometimes my tangents aren't very accurate so I just want to be able to use differentiation to check it.

Thanks

dy/dx (x/2 - 2/x) = 1/2 +  2/x2 => substituing x=2 --> m = 1

Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: @d!_†oX!© on November 03, 2009, 08:31:50 am
hey aadi cud u explain me differentiation more briefly...i wud want to learn to check my answer if possible...pm me or better come on gmail...
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: Ghost Of Highbury on November 03, 2009, 08:33:15 am
its difficult to learn differentiation in such a short span of..there are different methods for different type

for e.g here...u have to apply the u/v rule..

so yea..maybe later..
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: lol on November 03, 2009, 08:44:26 am
Thanks but i don't understand why it is x^2, isn't it x^-2 because the original power is -1 and we reduce it by 1 we get -2
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: ~~~~shreyapril~~~~ on November 03, 2009, 08:48:37 am
ya ure rite!!
but x^-2 becomes 1/x^2!!!
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: Ghost Of Highbury on November 03, 2009, 08:51:07 am
n ono...its not that simple

its the u/v method

here

d/dx (u/v) = (vdu-udv)/v2
break the expressin into two halves

1. x/2

2. 2/x

first..

u = x
v = 2
du = 1
dv = 0

->(vdu-udv)/v2

= 2/4

second..

u = 2
v =x
du = 0
dv = 1

(vdu-udv)/v2

=> (0-2)x2 = -2/x2

so the final differentiation = 1/2 - (-2/x2) = 1/2 + 2/x2
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: @d!_†oX!© on November 03, 2009, 08:51:26 am
its difficult to learn differentiation in such a short span of..there are different methods for different type

for e.g here...u have to apply the u/v rule..

so yea..maybe later..

ya ya...kk..
u teach me after the ig'z!!
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: lol on November 03, 2009, 08:52:13 am
OMG I'm such an idiot. This is exactly the kind of thing i'm going to do tomorrow. I can do the work but I just make so many errors. After substituting x=2 into the equation i forgot to multiply by 2 before adding a half.

Thank you all so much and sorry about the hassle
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: Ghost Of Highbury on November 03, 2009, 08:52:59 am
OMG I'm such an idiot. This is exactly the kind of thing i'm going to do tomorrow. I can do the work but I just make so many errors. After substituting x=2 into the equation i forgot to multiply by 2 before adding a half.

Thank you all so much and sorry about the hassle

thats k..
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: ~~~~shreyapril~~~~ on November 03, 2009, 08:54:43 am
baapre aadi yuo tuped so much just to explain him differentiation!!

i guess adi toxic is now scared!!

By the way there is one trick by differentiation you can find the equation of the normal and tangnt in maths !!

i ahve used it many times!!
although this is not correct method!!

Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: moon on November 03, 2009, 03:58:54 pm
I need help in NOV 2004 Q7 Please.It is diffiicult.
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: Ghost Of Highbury on November 03, 2009, 04:14:39 pm
I need help in NOV 2004 Q7 Please.It is diffiicult.

the whole q?
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: moon on November 03, 2009, 04:17:23 pm
please I need a3, bii and c2 ???
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: wassup on November 03, 2009, 04:23:43 pm
I need help in NOV 2004 Q7 Please.It is diffiicult.
7 a)i) y = px + qx + r
      y = 4^2+(-2*4)+(-3)
      y = 5

ii) On K and L y=0
so, px + qx + r=0
     x-2x-3=0
     Solve this n u'll get x=-1, 3
K(-1,0) L(3,0)

iii) On M x=0
so, y=r
     y=-3
M(0,-3)

b)i) Upside down
ii) Eqn, will be x^2=y, so just put some values n get the shape of graph

c)i) c=0 because it passes through d origin
ii) (3,0) (4,8)
put these in the eqn.

3^2a + 3b = 0
4^2a + 4b = 8

solve these n u'll get a = 2, b = –6
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: Ghost Of Highbury on November 03, 2009, 04:27:59 pm
please I need a3, bii and c2 ???

for aiii

best wud be to draw the graph, and see where the minimum point lies. write its cordinates

for confirmation u can use differentiation

dy/dx = 2x - 2

2x - 2 =0

2x = 2

x = 1 substituting y = 4

dont bother if u dont understand this

for bii

u know then the value are applied in the equation

u r left with only y = x2 which is a parabola and passes through the origin (0,0)

for cii

it says it passes through the origin
which means, c =0

u r left with

y= ax^2 + bx

substitute the cordinates (3, 0) and (4, 8).

to get

0 = 9a + 3b

and

8 = 16a + 4b

from the second we can get

a = 8-4b / 16
substitute this in the first to get
72 - 36b
--------  = -3b
     16

72 - 36b = -48b

solve to get

b = -6 and a = 2

@wassup - for aiii - it is not they-axis, its a line of symmetry
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: @d!_†oX!© on November 03, 2009, 04:30:09 pm
there u go:

a)iii) K(-1,0) and L(3,0)
       M lies on the line of symmetry so the the point on the x-axis along this line of symmetry will be the mid-point of the line KL
       Mid point = ((x2+x1)/2 , (y2+y1)/2)
       Mid point = (1,0)
As the point M lies on the same line of symmetry thus its x-coordinate is 1
by using the value of x(as 1) and the values of p, q and r given find y
y= -4

b)ii)The graph will be the same figurebut its base will not go below the origin(0,0)

c)ii)
put the values for each coordinate in the equation forming 2 equations nd then solve them simultaneously
for (3,0)
0=a(3)2+b(3) +0
=>9a+3b=0
for (4,8)
8=a(4)2+b(4)+o
=>16a+4b=8

solve them simultaneously to get a=2, and b=-6
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: @d!_†oX!© on November 03, 2009, 04:37:24 pm
for aiii

best wud be to draw the graph, and see where the minimum point lies. write its cordinates

for confirmation u can use differentiation

dy/dx = 2x - 2

2x - 2 =0

2x = 2

x = 1 substituting y = 4

dont bother if u dont understand this

for bii

u know then the value are applied in the equation

u r left with only y = x2 which is a parabola and passes through the origin (0,0)

for cii

it says it passes through the origin
which means, c =0

u r left with

y= ax^2 + bx

substitute the cordinates (3, 0) and (4, 8).

to get

0 = 9a + 3b

and

8 = 16a + 4b

from the second we can get

a = 8-4b / 16
substitute this in the first to get
72 - 36b
--------  = -3b
     16

72 - 36b = -48b

solve to get

b = -6 and a = 2

@wassup - for aiii - it is not they-axis, its a line of symmetry

aadi won't it be tooo time consuming to draw the graph and do the differentiation(a part)....just see wat i did....i think dts the right method!!
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: Ghost Of Highbury on November 03, 2009, 04:38:16 pm
aadi won't it be tooo time consuming to draw the graph and do the differentiation(a part)....just see wat i did....i think dts the right method!!

yes. that would be better. i considered that and thus didnt comment. u wanted to hear this. lol
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: moon on November 03, 2009, 04:47:56 pm

iii) On M x=0
so, y=r
     y=-3
M(0,-3)


This answer isn't like that in the mark scheme it should b (1, -4)
Thanks u all for ur help & I think that it is not that much difficult.
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: wassup on November 03, 2009, 04:57:19 pm
This answer isn't like that in the mark scheme it should b (1, -4)
Thanks u all for ur help & I think that it is not that much difficult.

sorry i thot it was d y axis.
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: @d!_†oX!© on November 03, 2009, 04:58:43 pm
yes. that would be better. i considered that and thus didnt comment. u wanted to hear this. lol
hey nthng like that dude...just wanted to let u know....
Title: Re: Math paper4 Jun. 2009 help
Post by: ~~~~shreyapril~~~~ on November 04, 2009, 09:56:12 am
abbe kitan jhagde ho tum dono!!!!