Author Topic: chem doubt....  (Read 1273 times)

Offline cashem'up

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chem doubt....
« on: May 29, 2010, 08:44:05 am »
hey guys this is very interesting question
In a past paper they said that when a halogen reacts with water an oxidising agent is formed BUT
1) when chlorine dissolves it forms HCL and HOCl......so how does this act as an oxidising agent bcos arent these ions......and halides are reducing agents whereas halogens are oxidising agents
2) or is it that when halogen reacts with water it remains as halogen and not turn into halide???

please help Thanks
 :)

Offline girl_92

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Re: chem doubt....
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2010, 08:51:36 am »
im not sure but i guess they are talking abt hypochlorate HOCL oxidation state of chlorine is +1 in it so i guess it will gain an electron adn reduce itslef to chlorine
By the way which year paper it is scan it nd post it here if its a old paper
some people sleep to dream while othrs wakeup to follow dem im the second type how abt u

Offline cashem'up

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Re: chem doubt....
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2010, 09:16:41 am »
im not sure but i guess they are talking abt hypochlorate HOCL oxidation state of chlorine is +1 in it so i guess it will gain an electron adn reduce itslef to chlorine
By the way which year paper it is scan it nd post it here if its a old paper
it was a w06 ppr i think 3rd question last part where they give periodic table..........

Offline Chingoo

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Re: chem doubt....
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2010, 09:37:49 am »
Since we do not consider Fluorine and Astatine in our reactions, we'll exclude them from this explanation. Hence, the remainder is chlorine, bromine and iodine. Down the group, the bond energy between the halogen atoms increases.
Cl2<Br2<I2

Also, the electron affinity decreases down the group:
Cl2>Br2>I2
Hence, Chlorine is the most electronegative whilst Iodine is the least. As a rule, the most electronegative element has the most oxidising power as it will readily accept an electron from a reductant.

When Chlorine dissolves in water, a disproportionation reaction occurs to form HCl and HOCl. HOCl is an unstable species and it decomposes to form HCl and O (reactive oxygen atoms), which is why it is important as bleach and in germicides in swimming pools. Hence, the actual halide in this reaction is only HCl.

However, in hydrogen halides there is a similar problem of oxidising ability reducing down the group. Hence, HCl is a weak reducing agent and strong oxidising agent. When it reacts as a metal halide with H2SO4, only HCl is formed (as an acid breaks up the salt) but it will not be oxidised by H2SO4, whilst that is not true for Br2 and I2.

When a metal bromide reacts with H2SO4, it also forms HBr initially. However, as it is not as strong as HCl when it comes to oxidising ability, it is oxidised by H2SO4 to Br2 and hence the following reactions take place:
NaBr + H2SO4 ----> HBr + NaHSO4
HBr + H2SO4 ----> Br2 + H2O + SO2 (not balanced)
In case of metal iodide, the same mechanism occurs but instead of just stopping at SO2, it is able to reduce H2SO4 to H2S, with the lowest oxidation state of Sulphur:
NaI + H2SO4 ----> HI + NaHSO4
HI + H2SO4 ----> I2 + H2S + H2O (not balanced)

This trend in the halides is due to the decreasing bond enthalpies of the H-X bond, which means each progressive halide is more unstable and hence is a better reducing agent, more willing to 'get rid' of the hydrogen.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 09:39:37 am by Chingoo »
All that is on earth will perish:
But will abide (forever) the Face of thy Lord--full of Majesty, Bounty & Honor.
Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?


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Offline IGCSE nightmare

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Re: chem doubt....
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2010, 09:49:12 am »
When KMnO4 being acidified oxidises an alkene, what are the conditions?
And how do we know if it's going to oxidise an alcohol or an alkene?

Offline cashem'up

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Re: chem doubt....
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2010, 10:07:10 am »
Since we do not consider Fluorine and Astatine in our reactions, we'll exclude them from this explanation. Hence, the remainder is chlorine, bromine and iodine. Down the group, the bond energy between the halogen atoms increases.
Cl2<Br2<I2

Also, the electron affinity decreases down the group:
Cl2>Br2>I2
Hence, Chlorine is the most electronegative whilst Iodine is the least. As a rule, the most electronegative element has the most oxidising power as it will readily accept an electron from a reductant.

When Chlorine dissolves in water, a disproportionation reaction occurs to form HCl and HOCl. HOCl is an unstable species and it decomposes to form HCl and O (reactive oxygen atoms), which is why it is important as bleach and in germicides in swimming pools. Hence, the actual halide in this reaction is only HCl.

However, in hydrogen halides there is a similar problem of oxidising ability reducing down the group. Hence, HCl is a weak reducing agent and strong oxidising agent. When it reacts as a metal halide with H2SO4, only HCl is formed (as an acid breaks up the salt) but it will not be oxidised by H2SO4, whilst that is not true for Br2 and I2.

When a metal bromide reacts with H2SO4, it also forms HBr initially. However, as it is not as strong as HCl when it comes to oxidising ability, it is oxidised by H2SO4 to Br2 and hence the following reactions take place:
NaBr + H2SO4 ----> HBr + NaHSO4
HBr + H2SO4 ----> Br2 + H2O + SO2 (not balanced)
In case of metal iodide, the same mechanism occurs but instead of just stopping at SO2, it is able to reduce H2SO4 to H2S, with the lowest oxidation state of Sulphur:
NaI + H2SO4 ----> HI + NaHSO4
HI + H2SO4 ----> I2 + H2S + H2O (not balanced)

This trend in the halides is due to the decreasing bond enthalpies of the H-X bond, which means each progressive halide is more unstable and hence is a better reducing agent, more willing to 'get rid' of the hydrogen.

hey dude thanx for the gr8 info  ;D ;D ;D
many things became clear to me but still the answer allowed any halide when reacted with water forms a solution of oxidizing agent................not only chlorine......so iodide is a strong reducing agent then how is it possible that when we react water with iodine forms a soln of oxidising agent......... ??? ??? ???

Offline Chingoo

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Re: chem doubt....
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2010, 10:18:22 am »
Iodine is a weak oxidizing agent, no doubt, but it is one. It's definitely weaker than H2SO4, for that matter. Remember: metals love to be reducing agents as they are tempted to lose electrons. Non-metals are the reverse as they are tempted to gain electrons. The typical non-metals are obviously the halogens, and though weak but iodine is a typical non-metal and is primarily an oxidising agent.

Quote
When KMnO4 being acidified oxidises an alkene, what are the conditions?
And how do we know if it's going to oxidise an alcohol or an alkene?
Conditions: Cold and dilute KMnO4
The oxidation of an alcohol by KMnO4 is not directly in our syllabus, as far as I know.
All that is on earth will perish:
But will abide (forever) the Face of thy Lord--full of Majesty, Bounty & Honor.
Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?


Qura'n, Chapter 55: The Beneficent, Verses 26-28

Offline girl_92

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Re: chem doubt....
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2010, 02:33:42 pm »
the possible answers i suppose was only chlorine and fluorine  chlorine as it forms hocl it releases o so it is redudced and when f reacts with water even it produces oxygen s it reduces as well
some people sleep to dream while othrs wakeup to follow dem im the second type how abt u

Offline Vin

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Re: chem doubt....
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 10:37:31 pm »
Chingoo , +REP. :)