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Death Penalty Vs Life imprisonment

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O.T.13.:
Welcome back boiii!
okay cherio  :D

$tyli$h Executive:

--- Quote ---You must also understand that the debating rules already exist. Did your experience not tell you that if you repeat it more than often, you give your opponents the impression that you think they are innately 'barbarous'? That's why I told you this...

Anyway, if you like writing it, it's your choice, none of my concern.
--- End quote ---

This one caught my eye first!!!

Alpha, Dear, it seems to me that you have got a negative mindset!!! See this post:


--- Quote ---Yups, we should all keep that in mind; one of the nice things about the recent debates is all of em have been in a friendly full of    and   manner lol
lol i thought yourea new member until i saw your avatar
--- End quote ---

This reply was by OT13. See the difference between the two replies! I wrote something. OT13 interpreted it positively, stating that we all should keep this sentence ("No offence implied") in mind. And you thought that I am accusing everybody of being barbarious?!!!! Oh my Goodness!!! So much difference between positive and negative mindsets!!! I didn’t know this before!!!

Anyway, you must keep in mind that, again, not everybody thinks like you and me!!! Try interpreting everything positively, dear!!! And you will roll on perfectly!!!


--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---Don't you think you are diverting from the topic a bit? I d id not develop my point in one sentence. So you should not argue based upon your conclusion after reading the first sentence. So, I would advise you to read the whole paragraph, carefully, think and then argue for your conclusions based on the WHOLE paragraph.
--- End quote ---

Crimes are products of our citizens. Criminals and victims are all citizens. The police, army, jailers, lawyers, and judges are also citizens. The law is formed by our citizens, for our citizens. The government plays a role in citizenship too. No, I don't think I am diverting from the topic. I did not develop my conclusion in the paragraph either. Leave alone sentences, every word you say makes a difference in a debate. If not to you, to me it does.
--- End quote ---

Don't you deny that dear!!! You said "As I read the first line itself ...." . This effectively proves that you have come to your conclusion after reading the first line and have not read the whole paragraph!!! Just to tell you a point, I usually develop an idea in a paragraph, be it in a debate or essay! So, please read the whole paragraph carefully, then come to conclusions, and argue upon the whole paragraph.


--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---There are many reasons for which a criminal commits a crime. It is not necessarily limited to need, or any other simple thing. The point which you illustrated is your thinking. You must understand that not everybody thinks in a similar way. I would suggest you to consult a mental physician if you want to know more about why people commit crimes.
--- End quote ---

There may be thousands, billions of reasons, a crime is and remains a crime. Besides, I haven't stated any reason here. You must read properly. "Game" here refers to "crime", "killing". I haven't illustrated MY thinking. I used the first person to illustrate the basic reasoning of ANY rational individual. I would suggest you to read carefully.
--- End quote ---


You did illustrate your thinking, dear!!! The thing which you call 'rational' is your own thinking itself! The 'rational' thing is different for many people!

As an example, some of my friends become very sad and upset if their girlfriend leaves them for another boy!!! Seems like a nonsense idea to me, since it, strictly speaking, doesn't result in a personal loss or gain! She left a few days ago for India and will stay there for probably several years, and I didn't even care, except for saying goodbye!!! I don't even care if I get to see her again!!!

This idea seems 'rational' to me! However, when I tell this to a few of my 'heartbroken' romeo friends (as a consolation), they call me mad!!! I don’t have any emotions!!! And even says that I am not trustworthy!!! I am a betrayer!!! I am still a kid, though I am exactly six foot tall and weight 77 KGs!!!

It's left for you to decide, dear, which idea do you think is 'rational'?


--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---Why do criminals try to escape from the police, then? There are many poor peoples in the world. Not everybody of them are criminals. Only a minority of them are. That is why I differentiated from LAW ABIDING AND LAW BREAKING CITIZENS!!!. Every poor people has needs, but only SOME OF THEM ARE COMMITING CRIMES!!! I think you should have understood this. Again, you must read my WHOLE paragraph and understand what I am trying to say, then argue.
--- End quote ---

So you accept it: criminals try to escape from the police. Point noted.
I never said every poor person is a criminal. I've used the word "trend" and a colon, meaning that I'm talking about those who follow this trend. You must pay attention to my words.  

"Some of them are committing crimes", in capital. So you agree with me again. Second point noted.
I've talked about poverty and crime and the relationship existing between these two in my previous arguments in response to Omer's. Kindly refer to the fifth quote.
--- End quote ---

Yes, you were right that I agreed to your points. Of course they are right! There is no way to argue with those!!!

In your fifth quote:



--- Quote ---It is also the government's duty to diminish poverty. Has it done it effectively so far? It is also the government's duty to ensure peace and harmony in the world. But I can still see people fighting and dying in masses. Most countries claim to be democracies, should they then rely entirely on the government? Should 'free' nations that do not hesitate to raise a voice be wholly dependent on the government? A government does not make a nation. A nation makes a government.

"Worst" standard of living?
How true, poverty is a plague one must have endured personally to be able to have even the slightest notion of its torment.
Even if prison food is of the poorest quality in the world, at least, AT LEAST the prisoners DO HAVE SOMETHING to eat. Can you compare a prisoner with the innocent child who has not even had the chance to see a few grains of rice for days? To the people who have endured famine and slept on an empty stomach for the most part of their lives? To you, to me, to us fortunate ones, prison might be a hell, but for them, it's a rescue. For them, it's heaven on Earth.
--- End quote ---

However, I strongly disagree to this! God (Allah) will always make way for everybody's needs and wants! That is what I believe and I have full faith in him!!! A poor person who doesn't have anything to eat, will find a way to eat!!! He could do odd jobs, pull rickshaws or any other thing! If he WANTS to eat, and have a strong DESIRE to eat or achieve something, he WILL find a way!!! God (Allah) WILL show him the way!!!


--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---A man or woman who commits crimes to 'remain in prison' is mentally handicapped. And all of the participants of this debate (maybe except you!) will agree with me.

--- End quote ---

Oh, how did you guess that! Even if everybody else comes to agree with you, I will still be the first, last and only one standing at the extreme side.  
How can you qualify people who are trying to fill up their stomachs even if that means they have to face most dire circumstances as "mentally handicapped"? Victims of pitiful conditions are "mentally handicapped"? Poverty-stricken people in search of a shelter are "mentally handicapped"? Did these people choose to be poor?
--- End quote ---

If you are unsure, please conduct a poll "Do people commit crimes to remain in prison?". In my previous point, I proved that poor peoples who have a DESIRE to do something do not commit crimes to 'remain in prison'. He will get his meal, anyhow. Please refer to that.


--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---YOU are opposing YOURSELF!!! You said that Everybody are citizens of a country. Aren't criminals citizens too?

According to my theory, the serious offenders (like murderer, rapists or drug traffickers) will be KEPT BEHIND BARS! The cells will be supervised by honest police officers. The criminals won't get any chance to escape from the cells, regardless of how much they try. This will make our citizen's life safe for sure.
--- End quote ---

Yes, I said that and I know I said that. Criminals are citizens, I said it again in my first paragraph (and one more time here, makes it 4 times  ). So what? If they are citizens, does it mean they have the right to deprive others of their rights? And if they have committed crimes, which right of theirs departs them from punishment? "Honest police officers". These days, we have more corrupt ones. "KEPT BEHIND BARS", which is costly.
--- End quote ---

Of course, they don't have the right to deprive others of their rights!

In Mauritius, you don't have honest police officers? Neither do we in Bangladesh!!! But I have travelled to some countries, among which Malaysia and Singapore are there. The native people of those two country (especially Singapore) are so proud to have a perfect legal system and honest police officers!!! When I wrote, I assumed that the legal system of that country is perfect, and without any dishonest police officers!!! It may not, at present, apply to your or my country, but it will apply to, for example, Malaysia and Singapore!!! Corruption is an exceptional case!!!


--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---I think you have a misconception/misunderstanding about the definition of life imprisonment. I would suggest you to look it up in wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment . In a debate, you should always know what exactly is your topic after all.
--- End quote ---

If I was unsure about the terminologies, I would not have done this debate at all.
--- End quote ---

Don't you deny that, dear!!! Your quote...


--- Quote ---A world infested with such people does NOT make our citizens' lives "safe". Walking in the streets with the constant worry of being attacked is NOT what I call leading a "safe" life. Going out with little hope of returning back in one whole piece (LOL ) is NOT what I call leading a "safe" life. Maybe for you, "safe" has another meaning.  
--- End quote ---


... proves that you have misunderstandings about the definition of life imprisonment. Again, I repeat, the world will not be 'infested' with offenders if serious offenders like murderers or rapists are imprisoned for life!!! Again, I would suggest you to look it up in wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment !!!


--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---After reading this, I actually thought you are joking   . But you seem to be serious.

Well I have one advice for you: KISS not    , but KEEP IT SIMPLE and STRAIGHTFORWARD! Also THINK this way!
--- End quote ---

I was both joking and serious.

Very well, thanks. In return, I have one advice for you too: MISS not  , but MAKE IT SURE and SECURE. Also ACT this way.
--- End quote ---

I am sorry, dear, but that was a lame counter-attack!!! Your quote ....

--- Quote ---If we are still living in a world where shame is greater than temptation, I would be on the seventh cloud! That would be so idealistic! BUT unfortunately, the IDeal has no ID. It is rated R- Restricted. R pushes ID out of the world we are living in. What is IDeal is not Real.
--- End quote ---


.... was too difficult for me to understand!!! So, I advised you this, dear!!! I do not understand, on what basis, are you advising me to MISS!!!


--- Quote ---If you are confused about Opportunity costs, which I talked about earlier, you may wish to look it up too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost
--- End quote ---

On a side note: Try to be creative and innovative. You cannot do something out-of-ordinary on the competitive plane. You must make your own creative and innovative ideas and execute them!!! If you try to copy someone's ideas exactly and do not make any modifications, you will enter the competitive plane and will barely get something or lose!!!


--- Quote ---"The $28.4 billion State operating cost, divided by the U.S. resident population, resulted in a nationwide average operating expenditure of $100 per person.

States spent $29.5 billion for prisons in 2001, about a $5½ billion increase from 1996, after adjusting for inflation

* Prison operations consumed about 77% of State correctional costs in FY 2001. The remaining 23% was spent on juvenile justice, probation and parole, community-based corrections, and central office administration.

* State correctional expenditures increased 145% in 2001 constant dollars from $15.6 billion in FY 1986 to $38.2 billion in FY 2001; prison expenditures increased 150% from $11.7 billion to $29.5 billion.

* Excluding capital spending, the average cost of operating State prisons in FY 2001 was $100 per U.S. resident, up from $90 in FY 1996.

* Outlays for new prison construction, renovations, equipment, and other capital account activities amounted to less than 4% of total prison expenditures in most States.

* Spending on medical care for State prisoners totaled $3.3 billion, or 12% of operating expenditures in 2001.

Correctional authorities spent $38.2 billion to maintain the Nation’s State correctional systems in fiscal year 2001, including $29.5 billion specifically for adult correctional facilities. Day-to-day operating expenses totaled $28.4 billion, and capital outlays for land, new building, and renovations, 1.1 billion."

Source: U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Special Report
--- End quote ---

How many times should I tell EVERYBODY that expenditures, on any field are considered as a PERCENTAGE OF GDP. Why don't anybody understand this?!!! I'm tired of making everybody realize this fact!!! Again, if I have 100 billion $s, I won't mind donating $200m to these prisoners, will I? This 28.4 billion $ represents only 0.205% of the whole US GDP!!!


--- Quote ---P.S. While reading your arguments, I've had a closer look to mine. It looks like I'm shouting... Honestly, I had not taken notice of that while typing... I was tired, moody and in a hurry, I let that slip by...
Stylish Executive, I apologize again... I never meant to be offensive, even if I did seem... I don't want this debate to turn into a personal one.
Omer, I'm sincerely sorry if you've been victimized too.
--- End quote ---

If I was offended, I wouldn't have chatted with you today!!! I hope this 'offence' related matter ends here!!!


Cheers!!!

$tyli$h Executive:

--- Quote from: ~Alpha on December 23, 2009, 06:24:38 am ---
Thank you for your participation. Thank you Omer, I appreciate it.  :)


--- End quote ---

Thanks a lot!!!

This debate has reached its climax!!!

Cheers!!!

O.T.13.:
Okay boys and girls,
would we please stick to the topic?
both of you said you ain't offended, would we please leave it at that point?

$tyli$h Executive:
Hey, I just counteracted her points in her previous reply!

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