Teachers and Students > Debates
Should Muslims support Israel?
ExamPapersGeek:
i favor peace. but frankly most arabs are too prideful and defeat from israel has still left them bitter and with years turned into a jew-biased society. which has lead to difficulty in negotiations and the diplomatic process being slow to non-existent. and when violence increases, war leads to both side committing atrocities, israel has been better at it, due to better economy, education and preparation and good political ties with western powers. but end of the day both side die, both side suffer. as a muslim i think its time to not fight since we are losing, some might say thats cowardly, but i believe our economy/education isn't as good as it used to be, let us improve ourselves, and strengthen and understand. its a better long-term plan than revenge.
to answer your question directly, no i dont support israel. but that doesn't mean i dont support peace. i am not paying any price for the war there, but palestinian refugees are, you have to take that into account.
$tyli$h Executive:
--- Quote from: astarmathsandphysics on January 24, 2013, 10:52:02 am ---What sort of a crazy idea is this?
Actually some muslims do support Israel. Palestinians prefer Israeli qualifications and some even vote for Jewish politicians.
--- End quote ---
Lol, it's just that most muslims I know hate Israel, which I kind of find irrational. :)
--- Quote ---Politics in Israel should be a head count, like in Northern Ireland.
The majority - Jews of Arabs - gets to rule.
--- End quote ---
75% Jews, 25% arabs, that's the demographic of Israel.
--- Quote from: ExamPapersGeek on February 02, 2013, 07:48:51 am ---i favor peace. but frankly most arabs are too prideful and defeat from israel has still left them bitter and with years turned into a jew-biased society. which has lead to difficulty in negotiations and the diplomatic process being slow to non-existent. and when violence increases, war leads to both side committing atrocities, israel has been better at it, due to better economy, education and preparation and good political ties with western powers. but end of the day both side die, both side suffer. as a muslim i think its time to not fight since we are losing, some might say thats cowardly, but i believe our economy/education isn't as good as it used to be, let us improve ourselves, and strengthen and understand. its a better long-term plan than revenge.
to answer your question directly, no i dont support israel. but that doesn't mean i dont support peace. i am not paying any price for the war there, but palestinian refugees are, you have to take that into account.
--- End quote ---
Hmm, it is true that the Arab-Israeli wars saw more casualties from the Arab side, but is this fact enough to condemn Israel? Let's look at who started the wars. 1948's war was started by the Arab leaders, the stated goal was to uproot state of Israel. The 1967 wars started with the Straits of Tiran, Israel's main shipping line, was blocked by Egypt and troops massed at the border. The 1973 war was again started by Egypt. Also, US backed Israel, but Egypt and others were equally backed by the Soviets.
Coming to the issue of Palestinian refugees: Most people fled the area back in 1947 because of fear of war. Normally, according to UNHCR rules, refugees are to be settled in their host country. However, with the exception of Jordan, none of the Arab countries gave citizenship to the refugees. Not even their children were given any citizenship. As a result, the number of refugees which were originally 500000 grew to 4.6 million in these years. It's as if, the refugees are being used by them as a pawn for Arab political goals.
A 'fun fact' is: Israel resettled its Arab refugees within a couple of years and refused UN camps saying the idea was “repugnant” – so, in effect, Israel treated its Arab refugees better than any Arab country did.
Last, but not least, nobody talks of the 800,000 Jewish refugees from all Arab countries who were forced out and had their properties confiscated. This number is much higher.
Flamed-Ghoust:
--- Quote from: $tyli$h Executive on December 22, 2012, 10:28:41 pm ---Yes, israel is hostile to those Palestinians who attack israel. Such as hamas who sends rockets regularly to Israeli civilian areas. I think this is justified because any other country would've done the same in such a situation. Israel did go to war with sorrounding Arab countries before, but it was Israel who was attacked and they merely defended themselves as anybody would.
But how does that affect Muslims elsewhere? Why, for example, Bangladesh, which is thousands of miles away, refuses to recognise israel? Why are most pakistani, indian and arab muslims so virulently anti Israel?
Why not the same anger for muslim countries who fight the "muslimeen"? How about Kuwait, who expelled 450,000 Palestinians in 1991, when they supported Saddam? Imagine expelling 30% of population in a country. How about Jordan, which killed 25,000 Palestinians in 1970 when they revolted against King hussein? These numbers are many times more than Israel ever could do. Palestinians are still discriminated against in many arab countries eg. Jordan refused to take in Syrian Palestinian refugees, Egypt has strict conditions for visas. While many Arabs, muslims and christians, hold high positions in the Knesset and other Israeli govt. organisations.
Incidentally, Arab Israelis themselves aren't too keen on a Palestinian state: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9tfXf0llSk
--- End quote ---
Probably you are right, but Kuwait expelled Palestinians from Kuwait's land not fro Palestinian's land. And Kuwait has the very right to that even if it is wrong because that is Kuwait's land, as for about Jordan killing Palestinians that is inhuman and I am totally against it.
Now for Israels part, they definitely should not be supported because all they look for is power and money, and if you study their past for the previous centuries you will notice that wherever Israel went they caused trouble and were hated.
Does anyone remember how did Israel come to Palestine, it was after they ran away from Germany because of Hitler, and remember what Hitler said about the Jews he spared their lives, "i let some live, so the world would know why i used to kill them"
This is the job of Israel, DESTRUCTION.
So definitely i am against the idea of anyone(not just Muslims) should support Israel.
So mark my words, their day will come just as Allah has promised us.
Flamed-Ghoust:
--- Quote from: $tyli$h Executive on December 22, 2012, 10:28:41 pm ---Yes, israel is hostile to those Palestinians who attack israel. Such as hamas who sends rockets regularly to Israeli civilian areas. I think this is justified because any other country would've done the same in such a situation. Israel did go to war with sorrounding Arab countries before, but it was Israel who was attacked and they merely defended themselves as anybody would.
But how does that affect Muslims elsewhere? Why, for example, Bangladesh, which is thousands of miles away, refuses to recognise israel? Why are most pakistani, indian and arab muslims so virulently anti Israel?
Why not the same anger for muslim countries who fight the "muslimeen"? How about Kuwait, who expelled 450,000 Palestinians in 1991, when they supported Saddam? Imagine expelling 30% of population in a country. How about Jordan, which killed 25,000 Palestinians in 1970 when they revolted against King hussein? These numbers are many times more than Israel ever could do. Palestinians are still discriminated against in many arab countries eg. Jordan refused to take in Syrian Palestinian refugees, Egypt has strict conditions for visas. While many Arabs, muslims and christians, hold high positions in the Knesset and other Israeli govt. organisations.
Incidentally, Arab Israelis themselves aren't too keen on a Palestinian state: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9tfXf0llSk
--- End quote ---
You want to tell me Israel is hostile only to Palestinians who attack them??
You want to know why Hamas throw rockets, those rockets are for the children, women and elders who died in the past decades, and do you know why they were killed, the children who were killed were killed because they know if they grow if they will fight like there parents.
The women were killed so they will not bring new children who grow up and throw stones at their tanks.
Elders were killed so they cannot teach the children the history of Palestine and why should they defend their beloved land with their souls.
Israel are cowards and will always be. and the proof is on youtube.
$tyli$h Executive:
Welcome to the Forum Flamed-Ghoust. :)
--- Quote from: Flamed-Ghoust on February 02, 2013, 03:09:40 pm ---Probably you are right, but Kuwait expelled Palestinians from Kuwait's land not fro Palestinian's land. And Kuwait has the very right to that even if it is wrong because that is Kuwait's land, as for about Jordan killing Palestinians that is inhuman and I am totally against it.
--- End quote ---
The Palestinian authority supported Saddam in the war, so 450,000 Palestinians were punished and ethnically cleansed/deported. Please explain how Kuwait has the right to ethnically cleanse Palestinians from Kuwait when it is not their fault?
As an example, what would you think if US deported all Iraqi-Americans in the wake of the Iraq war?
--- Code: ---Now for Israels part, they definitely should not be supported because all they look for is power and money, and if you study their past for the previous centuries you will notice that wherever Israel went they caused trouble and were hated.
Does anyone remember how did Israel come to Palestine, it was after they ran away from Germany because of Hitler, and remember what Hitler said about the Jews he spared their lives, "i let some live, so the world would know why i used to kill them"
--- End code ---
First of all, the quote you used is a fake one invented by anti-semitic groups.
You probably mean the Jews since the only time Israel existed before 1948 was 3000 years ago. Jews did not cause any trouble in Germany for which they had to be exterminated like this. Hitler hated and killed the jews because he considered them to be an inferior race and conspirator. Jews, muslims and everyone else is above all, a human being; the holocaust is a tragedy and should be condemned as such.
--- Quote ---You want to tell me Israel is hostile only to Palestinians who attack them??
You want to know why Hamas throw rockets, those rockets are for the children, women and elders who died in the past decades, and do you know why they were killed, the children who were killed were killed because they know if they grow if they will fight like there parents.
The women were killed so they will not bring new children who grow up and throw stones at their tanks.
--- End quote ---
You make it seem like Israel is on a mission to kill Palestinians.
Well, Israel must be doing a very poor job at that.
Also, you didn't say anything about the 800,000 jews expelled from Arab countries since 1948. Jews are humans too.
--- Quote ---So mark my words, their day will come just as Allah has promised us.
--- End quote ---
Allah promised no such thing. In fact, if you look at the Quran, Allah promises Jerusalem to the Jews. The anti-semitic Islamic thought comes from hadiths written almost 250 years later and most probably were shaped according to the political atmosphere at that time.
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