Teachers and Students > Debates
Why can equality not prevail?
Alpha:
--- Quote from: Bill Gates on December 10, 2010, 01:31:14 pm ---There is some contradiction here. In the previous part, you said that we do have a right to prosper and earn the maximum. While in the latter part you said that greed is not good ie. possessing more than one needs/deserves. How can one prosper and earn the maximum and at the same time, possess not more than one needs/deserves?
Also, the word need and deserve was used as the synonym. I don't think this is the case. In my opinion, whether someone deserves something is determined by whether he has it or not. You deserve it, so you have it. You don't, so you don't have it. Its pretty simple.
To be realistic, one needs very less. I need very less wealth to cover my basic needs (eg. shelter, food, security etc). Talking in that respect, I do not need to study in a good expensive school which offers Cambridge syllabuses. I can get my basic education in a local, feeble one. That would cover my needs well. While at the same time, I'm sure, this is something everyone including you would disapprove of.
The desire to acquire excessive wealth and materialistic possessions has been the root of all progress of mankind. It is a virtue and everyone should practice it, in my opinion. Everyone should have the excessive desire to acquire excessive wealth and they should work for it. This system will ensure our (the mankind, as a whole)'s progress.
It is only harmful when someone directly competes for the resources of others. What I mean to say is, take the example of a person. He has a friend who has more wealth than him. He becomes greedy of his friend's wealth.
Now, this can be expressed in two ways. First: Due to this desire, he can set his mind to be more wealthy than his friend. By doing so, he will have to do better in business and/or his job. Or he will have to look for other better opportunities which may feed his desire. Second: He becomes jealous of his friend and makes a plot to grab his wealth by some means.
The first one is a virtue, is good, and is something which has caused the human race to progress this far. The second one is not good and often backfires.
I hope I'm clear.
--- End quote ---
Waiting to see what King replies. The debate is getting interesting with you two. :D
By the way, if you did not notice it, this is turning all philosophical. :P
--- Quote ---In my opinion, whether someone deserves something is determined by whether he has it or not. You deserve it, so you have it. You don't, so you don't have it. Its pretty simple.
--- End quote ---
Nah, there are many things people deserve but they don't have. Merit and achievement may be closely related, but the relationship they share might not always be positive or proportionate.
E.g. Bin Laden deserves to be locked, he isn't. :P
--- Quote ---The desire to acquire excessive wealth and materialistic possessions has been the root of all progress of mankind. It is a virtue and everyone should practice it, in my opinion. Everyone should have the excessive desire to acquire excessive wealth and they should work for it. This system will ensure our (the mankind, as a whole)'s progress.
It is only harmful when someone directly competes for the resources of others. What I mean to say is, take the example of a person. He has a friend who has more wealth than him. He becomes greedy of his friend's wealth.
Now, this can be expressed in two ways. First: Due to this desire, he can set his mind to be more wealthy than his friend. By doing so, he will have to do better in business and/or his job. Or he will have to look for other better opportunities which may feed his desire. Second: He becomes jealous of his friend and makes a plot to grab his wealth by some means.
--- End quote ---
I think what he meant was that excessive desire leads to greed, which ultimately leads to resentment and hatred, that is, the second situation you described.
The first you described is achievement; for some people, happiness is achievement, in whatever form it might be. And far from being greed (which is detrimental to the doer and non-doer), the need to achieve increases as one moves on. :)
--- Quote from: Bill Gates on December 10, 2010, 01:34:00 pm ---Thanks! :)
Nice! :D
Its so good to see you hate being poor, illerate etc. A break from "poverty is good" kind of assumption. :P ;D
--- End quote ---
Poverty is natural. I never claimed it to be "good". ;)
$tyli$h Executive:
--- Quote from: Cleo~patra VII on December 10, 2010, 01:42:23 pm ---Waiting to see what King replies. The debate is getting interesting with you two. :D
--- End quote ---
A pleasure to see that it interests you. :P
--- Quote ---By the way, if you did not notice it, this is turning all philosophical.
--- End quote ---
Exactly. But I did not forget to add a practical touch by making real-life comparisons. ;)
--- Quote ---Nah, there are many things people deserve but they don't have. Merit and achievement may be closely related, but the relationship they share might not always be positive or proportionate.
E.g. Bin Laden deserves to be locked, he isn't.
--- End quote ---
Bin Laden isn't locked because he is very skillful at avoiding his capture by NATO personnels. In other words, his remarkable skills of avoiding to get captured means that he does not, ultimately, deserve to get caught. ;)
Hope that clears it. ;)
--- Quote ---Poverty is natural. I never claimed it to be "good".
--- End quote ---
Poverty is never natural. Wealth and prosperity is a natural thing, but one has to achieve it. ;)
Alpha:
--- Quote from: Bill Gates on December 10, 2010, 02:02:41 pm ---A pleasure to see that it interests you. :P
--- End quote ---
It's my topic, after all. ::)
--- Quote ---Exactly. But I did not forget to add a practical touch by making real-life comparisons. ;)
--- End quote ---
A concept in philosophy is called realism. :)
--- Quote ---Bin Laden isn't locked because he is very skillful at avoiding his capture by NATO personnels. In other words, his remarkable skills of avoiding to get captured means that he does not, ultimately, deserve to get caught. ;)
--- End quote ---
That was a good reply. :D
But what if I say, you do not deserve to die, but ultimately, will have to? :P
--- Quote ---Poverty is never natural. Wealth and prosperity is a natural thing, but one has to achieve it. ;)
--- End quote ---
Maybe absolute poverty can be eradicated, but relative, can never be. And in the long term, this relative poverty will ultimately lead to absolute poverty. Poverty is a natural consequence of division of labour. Because people do not all perform the same, they are not all rewarded the same.
I hope I'm clear. :P ;D
$tyli$h Executive:
--- Quote from: Cleo~patra VII on December 10, 2010, 02:08:07 pm ---It's my topic, after all. ::)
--- End quote ---
At least, we're not diverting from the topic. ::)
--- Quote ---A concept in philosophy is called realism.
--- End quote ---
Fine. Then, we're being realistic. ;D
--- Quote ---That was a good reply.
But what if I say, you do not deserve to die, but ultimately, will have to?
--- End quote ---
I will die because of some problem (eg. heart failure because of atherosclerosis, kidney failure, or maybe road accident because I drove carelessly) Therefore, I, ultimately, deserve to die because of what I've done. ;)
Hope its clear ::)
--- Quote ---Maybe absolute poverty can be eradicated, but relative, can never be. And in the long term, this relative poverty will ultimately lead to absolute poverty. Poverty is a natural consequence of division of labour. Because people do not all perform the same, they are not all rewarded the same.
I hope I'm clear.
--- End quote ---
I agree that relative poverty cannot be eradicated. But absolute can.
You can see that well in Mauritius I think. Aren't you and your family leading a much better life/are much more wealthy than you were 10 years ago? I'm sure you are. Every family is with a few exceptions. We are too.
The trend indicates that absolute poverty is being rapidly eradicated, regardless of any argument. ( :P )
Alpha:
--- Quote from: Bill Gates on December 10, 2010, 02:18:23 pm ---At least, we're not diverting from the topic. ::)
Fine. Then, we're being realistic. ;D
--- End quote ---
He admits. :D
--- Quote ---I will die because of some problem (eg. heart failure because of atherosclerosis, kidney failure, or maybe road accident because I drove carelessly) Therefore, I, ultimately, deserve to die because of what I've done. ;)
Hope its clear ::)
--- End quote ---
Is there not something called "natural death"? :P
--- Quote ---I agree that relative poverty cannot be eradicated. But absolute can.
You can see that well in Mauritius I think. Aren't you and your family leading a much better life/are much more wealthy than you were 10 years ago?
The trend indicates that absolute poverty is being rapidly eradicated, regardless of any argument. ( :P )
--- End quote ---
You use a decade to compare, and are talking about "rapidly"... ::)
Absolute poverty... not relative. Therefore, poverty exists. ;)
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