Author Topic: Should Muslims support Israel?  (Read 5974 times)

Offline $tyli$h Executive

  • Honorary Member
  • SF V.I.P
  • *****
  • Posts: 5069
  • Reputation: 65403
  • Gender: Male
Should Muslims support Israel?
« on: December 18, 2012, 11:10:06 am »
The title is rather provocative, maybe even outrageous to some and may contravene with the rules, but I at least hope to get some responses and get the ball rolling this way. ;D

Why not?

Early Arab leaders such as Faisal I of Iraq were strongly pro-Zionist. This is what he said while signing a treaty with the World Zionist Organisation's president Dr. Weizzman

"We Arabs... look with the deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement. Our deputation here in Paris is fully acquainted with the proposals submitted yesterday by the Zionist Organisation to the Peace Conference, and we regard them as moderate and proper. We will do our best, in so far as we are concerned, to help them through; we will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home... I look forward, and my people with me look forward, to a future in which we will help you and you will help us, so that the countries in which we are mutually interested may once again take their places in the community of the civilised peoples of the world."

On March 23, 1918, Al Qibla, the daily newspaper of Mecca, printed the following words in support of the Balfour Declaration of 1917:

"The resources of the country [Palestine] are still virgin soil and will be developed by the Jewish immigrants (...) we have seen the Jews from foreign countries streaming to Palestine from Russia, Germany, Austria, Spain, and America. The cause of causes could not escape those who had a gift of deeper insight. They knew that the country was for its original sons [abna'ihi-l-asliyin], for all their differences, a sacred and beloved homeland. The return of these exiles [jaliya] to their homeland will prove materially and spiritually an experimental school for their brethren who are with them in the fields, factories, trades and all things connected to the land."[20]

Bedouins make up a portion of the IDF (Israel Defence Forces).  Maj Fehd Fallah, a Bedouin from the village of Saad in the Israeli occupied Golan Heights said in an interview: "Yes, I have fought against Muslims in Gaza," he says. "And I would fight again if I had to," he added. "Israeli Muslims who don't serve in the IDF should be ashamed for not serving their country."

Ismail Khaldi is the first Bedouin deputy consul of the State of Israel and the highest ranking Muslim in the Israeli foreign service.[37] Khaldi is a strong advocate of Israel. While acknowledging that the state of Israeli Bedouin minority is not ideal, he said "I am a proud Israeli - along with many other non-Jewish Israelis such as Druze, Bahai, Bedouin, Christians and Muslims, who live in one of the most culturally diversified societies and the only true democracy in the Middle East. Like America, Israeli society is far from perfect, but let us deals honestly. By any yardstick you choose -- educational opportunity, economic development, women and gay's rights, freedom of speech and assembly, legislative representation -- Israel's minorities fare far better than any other country in the Middle East."

Offline Ukhti-R

  • Striving for Jannah
  • Honorary Member
  • SF Overlord
  • *****
  • Posts: 11270
  • Reputation: 65535
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2012, 09:50:06 pm »
Short answer: No, simply because they are fighting with the Muslimeen. BUT this does not mean we should boycott them because the Prophet (peace be upon him) traded with the non-muslims despite their evil behaviour.

And Allah knows best.
"...And whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a a way for him to get out (from every difficulty). And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine. And whosoever puts his trust in Allah, then He will suffice him." [65: 2-3]

Offline $tyli$h Executive

  • Honorary Member
  • SF V.I.P
  • *****
  • Posts: 5069
  • Reputation: 65403
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2012, 10:28:41 pm »
Short answer: No, simply because they are fighting with the Muslimeen. BUT this does not mean we should boycott them because the Prophet (peace be upon him) traded with the non-muslims despite their evil behaviour.

And Allah knows best.

Yes, israel is hostile to those Palestinians who attack israel. Such as hamas who sends rockets regularly to Israeli civilian areas. I think this is justified because any other country would've done the same in such a situation. Israel did go to war with sorrounding Arab countries before, but it was Israel who was attacked and they merely defended themselves as anybody would.

But how does that affect Muslims elsewhere? Why, for example, Bangladesh, which is thousands of miles away, refuses to recognise israel? Why are most pakistani, indian and arab muslims so virulently anti Israel?

Why not the same anger for muslim countries who fight the "muslimeen"? How about Kuwait, who expelled 450,000 Palestinians in 1991, when they supported Saddam? Imagine expelling 30% of population in a country. How about Jordan, which killed 25,000 Palestinians in 1970 when they revolted against King hussein? These numbers are many times more than Israel ever could do. Palestinians are still discriminated against in many arab countries eg. Jordan refused to take in Syrian Palestinian refugees, Egypt has strict conditions for visas. While many Arabs, muslims and christians, hold high positions in the Knesset and other Israeli govt. organisations.

Incidentally, Arab Israelis themselves aren't too keen on a Palestinian state: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9tfXf0llSk

Offline astarmathsandphysics

  • SF Overlord
  • *********
  • Posts: 11271
  • Reputation: 65534
  • Gender: Male
  • Free the exam papers!
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2013, 10:52:02 am »
What sort of a crazy idea is this?
Actually some muslims do support Israel. Palestinians prefer Israeli qualifications and some even vote for Jewish politicians.

Offline astarmathsandphysics

  • SF Overlord
  • *********
  • Posts: 11271
  • Reputation: 65534
  • Gender: Male
  • Free the exam papers!
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2013, 10:54:57 am »
Politics in Israel should be a head count, like in Northern Ireland.
The majority - Jews of Arabs - gets to rule.

Offline ExamPapersGeek

  • SF Geek
  • ****
  • Posts: 547
  • Reputation: 65521
    • The Education Directory
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 07:48:51 am »
i favor peace. but frankly most arabs are too prideful and defeat from israel has still left them bitter and with years turned into a jew-biased society. which has lead to difficulty in negotiations and the diplomatic process being slow to non-existent. and when violence increases, war leads to both side committing atrocities, israel has been better at it, due to better economy, education and preparation and good political ties with western powers. but end of the day both side die, both side suffer. as a muslim i think its time to not fight since we are losing, some might say thats cowardly, but i believe our economy/education isn't as good as it used to be, let us improve ourselves, and strengthen and understand. its a better long-term plan than revenge.

to answer your question directly, no i dont support israel. but that doesn't mean i dont support peace. i am not paying any price for the war there, but palestinian refugees are, you have to take that into account.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 07:50:39 am by ExamPapersGeek »

Offline $tyli$h Executive

  • Honorary Member
  • SF V.I.P
  • *****
  • Posts: 5069
  • Reputation: 65403
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2013, 12:46:35 pm »
What sort of a crazy idea is this?
Actually some muslims do support Israel. Palestinians prefer Israeli qualifications and some even vote for Jewish politicians.

Lol, it's just that most muslims I know hate Israel, which I kind of find irrational. :)

Quote
Politics in Israel should be a head count, like in Northern Ireland.
The majority - Jews of Arabs - gets to rule.

75% Jews, 25% arabs, that's the demographic of Israel.

i favor peace. but frankly most arabs are too prideful and defeat from israel has still left them bitter and with years turned into a jew-biased society. which has lead to difficulty in negotiations and the diplomatic process being slow to non-existent. and when violence increases, war leads to both side committing atrocities, israel has been better at it, due to better economy, education and preparation and good political ties with western powers. but end of the day both side die, both side suffer. as a muslim i think its time to not fight since we are losing, some might say thats cowardly, but i believe our economy/education isn't as good as it used to be, let us improve ourselves, and strengthen and understand. its a better long-term plan than revenge.

to answer your question directly, no i dont support israel. but that doesn't mean i dont support peace. i am not paying any price for the war there, but palestinian refugees are, you have to take that into account.

Hmm, it is true that the Arab-Israeli wars saw more casualties from the Arab side, but is this fact enough to condemn Israel? Let's look at who started the wars. 1948's war was started by the Arab leaders, the stated goal was to uproot state of Israel. The 1967 wars started with the Straits of Tiran, Israel's main shipping line, was blocked by Egypt and troops massed at the border. The 1973 war was again started by Egypt. Also, US backed Israel, but Egypt and others were equally backed by the Soviets.

Coming to the issue of Palestinian refugees: Most people fled the area back in 1947 because of fear of war. Normally, according to UNHCR rules, refugees are to be settled in their host country. However, with the exception of Jordan, none of the Arab countries gave citizenship to the refugees. Not even their children were given any citizenship. As a result, the number of refugees which were originally 500000 grew to 4.6 million in these years. It's as if, the refugees are being used by them as a pawn for Arab political goals.

A 'fun fact' is: Israel resettled its Arab refugees within a couple of years and refused UN camps saying the idea was “repugnant” – so, in effect, Israel treated its Arab refugees better than any Arab country did.

Last, but not least, nobody talks of the 800,000 Jewish refugees from all Arab countries who were forced out and had their properties confiscated. This number is much higher.

Offline Flamed-Ghoust

  • I would love to help, but.....you know
  • SF Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Reputation: 65535
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2013, 03:09:40 pm »
Yes, israel is hostile to those Palestinians who attack israel. Such as hamas who sends rockets regularly to Israeli civilian areas. I think this is justified because any other country would've done the same in such a situation. Israel did go to war with sorrounding Arab countries before, but it was Israel who was attacked and they merely defended themselves as anybody would.

But how does that affect Muslims elsewhere? Why, for example, Bangladesh, which is thousands of miles away, refuses to recognise israel? Why are most pakistani, indian and arab muslims so virulently anti Israel?

Why not the same anger for muslim countries who fight the "muslimeen"? How about Kuwait, who expelled 450,000 Palestinians in 1991, when they supported Saddam? Imagine expelling 30% of population in a country. How about Jordan, which killed 25,000 Palestinians in 1970 when they revolted against King hussein? These numbers are many times more than Israel ever could do. Palestinians are still discriminated against in many arab countries eg. Jordan refused to take in Syrian Palestinian refugees, Egypt has strict conditions for visas. While many Arabs, muslims and christians, hold high positions in the Knesset and other Israeli govt. organisations.

Incidentally, Arab Israelis themselves aren't too keen on a Palestinian state: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9tfXf0llSk

Probably you are right, but Kuwait expelled Palestinians from Kuwait's land not fro Palestinian's land. And Kuwait has the very right to that even if it is wrong because that is Kuwait's land, as for about Jordan killing Palestinians that is inhuman and I am totally against it.

Now for Israels part, they definitely should not be supported because all they look for is power and money, and if you study their past for the previous centuries you will notice that wherever Israel went they caused trouble and were hated.
Does anyone remember how did Israel come to Palestine, it was after they ran away from Germany because of Hitler, and remember what Hitler said about the Jews he spared their lives, "i let some live, so the world would know why i used to kill them"

This is the job of Israel, DESTRUCTION.

So definitely i am against the idea of anyone(not just Muslims) should support Israel.

So mark my words, their day will come just as Allah has promised us.
I can only please one person a day
Today is NOT your day and tomorrow doesn't look good either

Offline Flamed-Ghoust

  • I would love to help, but.....you know
  • SF Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Reputation: 65535
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2013, 03:49:18 pm »
Yes, israel is hostile to those Palestinians who attack israel. Such as hamas who sends rockets regularly to Israeli civilian areas. I think this is justified because any other country would've done the same in such a situation. Israel did go to war with sorrounding Arab countries before, but it was Israel who was attacked and they merely defended themselves as anybody would.

But how does that affect Muslims elsewhere? Why, for example, Bangladesh, which is thousands of miles away, refuses to recognise israel? Why are most pakistani, indian and arab muslims so virulently anti Israel?

Why not the same anger for muslim countries who fight the "muslimeen"? How about Kuwait, who expelled 450,000 Palestinians in 1991, when they supported Saddam? Imagine expelling 30% of population in a country. How about Jordan, which killed 25,000 Palestinians in 1970 when they revolted against King hussein? These numbers are many times more than Israel ever could do. Palestinians are still discriminated against in many arab countries eg. Jordan refused to take in Syrian Palestinian refugees, Egypt has strict conditions for visas. While many Arabs, muslims and christians, hold high positions in the Knesset and other Israeli govt. organisations.

Incidentally, Arab Israelis themselves aren't too keen on a Palestinian state: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9tfXf0llSk

You want to tell me Israel is hostile only to Palestinians who attack them??
You want to know why Hamas throw rockets, those rockets are for the children, women and elders who died in the past decades, and do you know why they were killed, the children who were killed were killed because they know if they grow if they will fight like there parents.
The women were killed so they will not bring new children who grow up and throw stones at their tanks.

Elders were killed so they cannot teach the children the history of Palestine and why should they defend their beloved land with their souls.

Israel are cowards and will always be. and the proof is on youtube.
I can only please one person a day
Today is NOT your day and tomorrow doesn't look good either

Offline $tyli$h Executive

  • Honorary Member
  • SF V.I.P
  • *****
  • Posts: 5069
  • Reputation: 65403
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2013, 07:52:23 pm »
Welcome to the Forum Flamed-Ghoust. :)

Probably you are right, but Kuwait expelled Palestinians from Kuwait's land not fro Palestinian's land. And Kuwait has the very right to that even if it is wrong because that is Kuwait's land, as for about Jordan killing Palestinians that is inhuman and I am totally against it.

The Palestinian authority supported Saddam in the war, so 450,000 Palestinians were punished and ethnically cleansed/deported. Please explain how Kuwait has the right to ethnically cleanse Palestinians from Kuwait when it is not their fault?

As an example, what would you think if US deported all Iraqi-Americans in the wake of the Iraq war?

Code: [Select]
Now for Israels part, they definitely should not be supported because all they look for is power and money, and if you study their past for the previous centuries you will notice that wherever Israel went they caused trouble and were hated.
Does anyone remember how did Israel come to Palestine, it was after they ran away from Germany because of Hitler, and remember what Hitler said about the Jews he spared their lives, "i let some live, so the world would know why i used to kill them"

First of all, the quote you used is a fake one invented by anti-semitic groups.

You probably mean the Jews since the only time Israel existed before 1948 was 3000 years ago. Jews did not cause any trouble in Germany for which they had to be exterminated like this. Hitler hated and killed the jews because he considered them to be an inferior race and conspirator. Jews, muslims and everyone else is above all, a human being; the holocaust is a tragedy and should be condemned as such.

Quote
You want to tell me Israel is hostile only to Palestinians who attack them??
You want to know why Hamas throw rockets, those rockets are for the children, women and elders who died in the past decades, and do you know why they were killed, the children who were killed were killed because they know if they grow if they will fight like there parents.
The women were killed so they will not bring new children who grow up and throw stones at their tanks.

You make it seem like Israel is on a mission to kill Palestinians.

Well, Israel must be doing a very poor job at that.



Also, you didn't say anything about the 800,000 jews expelled from Arab countries since 1948. Jews are humans too.

Quote
So mark my words, their day will come just as Allah has promised us.

Allah promised no such thing. In fact, if you look at the Quran, Allah promises Jerusalem to the Jews. The anti-semitic Islamic thought comes from hadiths written almost 250 years later and most probably were shaped according to the political atmosphere at that time.

Offline Flamed-Ghoust

  • I would love to help, but.....you know
  • SF Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Reputation: 65535
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2013, 06:21:05 pm »


First thank you for your welcome

Second i never said that it is in the Quran, i said "their day will come just as Allah has promised us."
But it is in the Sunnah that Israel will be kicked out, which means the prophet said that, and what the prophet promises us is also a promise from Allah.

Third I never said that Israel ran away from Hitler i said the Jews, and those Jews are the ones who formed Israel again and took over Palestine. And you just proved what i said about Israel is that they cause trouble and were hated wherever they went. They were exterminated by Hitler as Jews not Israel, and as Jews they did not cause any trouble, but as Israel they did.

Fourth the graph you placed in there is not comparing Israel's population with Palestine's population, it compares Arabs with Jews.

And if you want to tell me that Israel is not doing a good job in murdering children and women here is the proof

https://www.google.com.qa/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=pictures+of+dead+palestinian+children&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41867550,d.bmk&biw=1034&bih=942&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=JfsPUYP4H9HhrAfTxIGoDQ

Now for the last thing, I do not hate Jews because they are humans like me and you and because god said i am supposed to respect them since they follow a divine religion, but i hate Israel because they killed many of my brothers and sister in Islam.


I am just saying my point of view, so please don't take any of what i said as being aggressive and i hope we stay friends in the forum as we should be.
I can only please one person a day
Today is NOT your day and tomorrow doesn't look good either

Offline $tyli$h Executive

  • Honorary Member
  • SF V.I.P
  • *****
  • Posts: 5069
  • Reputation: 65403
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2013, 04:35:14 am »

First thank you for your welcome

Second i never said that it is in the Quran, i said "their day will come just as Allah has promised us."
But it is in the Sunnah that Israel will be kicked out, which means the prophet said that, and what the prophet promises us is also a promise from Allah.

This is where the problem is. Sunnah comes from sources 250 years later after the quran, which are undoubtedly shaped by the political atmosphere at that time. So, at least the political ones can't be trusted.

You can find anything you wish  from sunnah... here you go, according to this sunnah, not just jews, you should also kill all Turks:

 “This is a sign for the doomsday, too: You will fight the people who wear shoes which are
 made of bristle and kill them. The fight against the people with wide shield faces is a sign for the doomsday. The doomsday won't come until you kill the little eyed, red faced, pug nosed, shield faced, thick skinned Turks.."( Bukhari, e's-Sahih, kitabu'l-Cihad/95; Muslim, e's-Sahih, Kitabu'l-Fiten/66, hadith #: 2912; ?bn Maja, hadith #: 4097-4098).

Quote
Third I never said that Israel ran away from Hitler i said the Jews, and those Jews are the ones who formed Israel again and took over Palestine. And you just proved what i said about Israel is that they cause trouble and were hated wherever they went. They were exterminated by Hitler as Jews not Israel, and as Jews they did not cause any trouble, but as Israel they did.

No, Jews do not cause trouble wherever they go. In fact, community where Jews go always prospers. Palestine was a wasteland and backwater under Arab and Ottoman rule. After Jews took over Israel, Israel is now one of the richest country in the middle east, has first-class infrastructure, only true democracy in middle east, most technologically advanced and  so on.

Jews did not take over Palestine. Their connection to Jerusalem dates back thousands of years and they have always lived there (under King David and Solomon). After Balfour declaration by British, which was accepted by Arab leaders, Jewish immigration increased to Palestine.

Quote
Fourth the graph you placed in there is not comparing Israel's population with Palestine's population, it compares Arabs with Jews.

The graph is of the arab and jewish population of Israel. If Israel wanted to exterminate arabs, as you claim here, such an explosive growth of Arab population wouldn't have been possible.

Quote
And if you want to tell me that Israel is not doing a good job in murdering children and women here is the proof

https://www.google.com.qa/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=pictures+of+dead+palestinian+children&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41867550,d.bmk&biw=1034&bih=942&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=Jf

Most of the pictures circulating are fakes... Google "pallywood", you will learn more about palestinian lies

Quote
Now for the last thing, I do not hate Jews because they are humans like me and you and because god said i am supposed to respect them since they follow a divine religion, but i hate Israel because they killed many of my brothers and sister in Islam.

If you don't hate jews, why do you have nothing to say about the 800,000 Jews who were expelled from Arab countries? Are they not human?

You hate israel, but you don't hate kuwait (expelled 450,000 palestinians) or pakistan/jordan (killed 25,000 palestinians).

You have nothing to say about the Arab countries who for 60 years didn't give Palestinians citizenship and have discriminatory laws against them.

You have nothing to say about the wars Arab countries initiated to destroy Israel. And so on.

Offline astarmathsandphysics

  • SF Overlord
  • *********
  • Posts: 11271
  • Reputation: 65534
  • Gender: Male
  • Free the exam papers!
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2013, 08:52:18 pm »
Watch what happens now in Iran.
Everybody, even Jews, might find themselves condemning Israel if they attack Iran after a nuclear deal is struck.

Offline astarmathsandphysics

  • SF Overlord
  • *********
  • Posts: 11271
  • Reputation: 65534
  • Gender: Male
  • Free the exam papers!
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2014, 11:52:18 am »
I heard that Israel is trying to persuade Palestinian Christians to join the Israeli Army.
They are trying to split the Palestinians.

Offline astarmathsandphysics

  • SF Overlord
  • *********
  • Posts: 11271
  • Reputation: 65534
  • Gender: Male
  • Free the exam papers!
Re: Should Muslims support Israel?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2014, 02:13:45 pm »
Divide and conquer