Author Topic: Do sanctions have any long term effect?  (Read 2497 times)

Offline $tyli$h Executive

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Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« on: April 24, 2011, 05:24:40 pm »
Do sanctions upon an economy have any long term effect?

Please note the word in bold: "Long term". Any sanctions will have short term effect.

CASE STUDY

---------------------------------------------------Iran--------------------------------------------

From Wikipedia:
Quote
After the Iranian Revolution in 1979, the United States ended its economic and diplomatic ties with Iran, banned Iranian oil imports and froze approximately $11 billion of its assets.[235] In 1996, the U.S. Government passed the Iran and Libya Sanctions Act (ILSA) which prohibits U.S. (and non-U.S. companies) from investing and trading with Iran in amounts of than $20 million annually.[236] Since 2000 exceptions to this restriction have been made for items including pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.[237]

Iran's Nuclear Program has been the subject of contention with the West since 2006 over suspicions of Iran's military intentions. This has led the UN Security Council to impose sanctions against select companies linked to the nuclear program, thus furthering the country's economic isolation on the international scene.[20] Sanctions notably bar nuclear, missile and many military exports to Iran and target investments in oil, gas and petrochemicals, exports of refined petroleum products, as well as the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, banks, insurance, financial transactions and shipping.[238]


From Wikipedia:

List of countries by GDP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

Economy of Iran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_iran

According to 2010:

Iran is the 18th largest economy in the world by GDP (Purchase power parity measure)

18.7% living below $11/day (2006)[4]

 3.1% living below $2/day (2006)[5]

Seventy percent of the Iranians own homes.

Iran is the 12th biggest automaker in the world.

In 1998, the United Nations classified Iran's economy as "semi-developed".

Mobarakeh in Esfahan is Iran's largest steel mill listed on the Tehran Stock Exchange.[76] In recent years, Iran has resumed its drive towards privatization.

The Tehran Stock Exchange has been one of the world's best performing stock exchanges in recent years.[186][187]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TEPIX.PNG

Iran plans to generate 23,000 MWh of electricity through nuclear technology by 2025 to meet its increasing demand for energy.[152]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Iran-electricity.gif

.............. For more, read the whole article on Economy of Iran.

More later. But overall, as far as I can see, sanctions from back in 1979, 1996 and 2006 had very little effect. Rather I would say, positive effect.

As far as oil is concerned, there are other economies which are lagging far behind with similar oil resources. I think I don't have to site examples here.

Offline $tyli$h Executive

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2011, 05:28:44 pm »
Not to mention the silly Iran-Iraq war which has cost Iran some $500 billion (wikipedia)

........

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2011, 05:49:59 pm »
I have been to Tehran and Ehwaz and Qum and i can safely say it has the best infrastructure outside Dubai and Doha in MENA region.

Persians are nationalists and are very proud of their ancestry. They do not like to be dictated to and according to them they were the birthplace of civilization.

They had the foundations laid in 1960s and 1970s during Shah's era and It was really easy to have economic growth on such strong foundation.
This is in addition to the fact their girls are H O T. and they have resources.Like LOTS of it.
So really Iran is very different from other countries

You can look at Libya which had to open to the world after sanctions literally destroyed their country.
I have been to Tripoli too and honestly when i went in 2001 it was dead .Not much of economic activity and in 2009 it was like Dubai. Beautiful buildings all around.


Offline $tyli$h Executive

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2011, 06:11:08 pm »
I have been to Tehran and Ehwaz and Qum and i can safely say it has the best infrastructure outside Dubai and Doha in MENA region.

Persians are nationalists and are very proud of their ancestry. They do not like to be dictated to and according to them they were the birthplace of civilization.

They had the foundations laid in 1960s and 1970s during Shah's era and It was really easy to have economic growth on such strong foundation.
This is in addition to the fact their girls are H O T. and they have resources.Like LOTS of it.
So really Iran is very different from other countries

You can look at Libya which had to open to the world after sanctions literally destroyed their country.
I have been to Tripoli too and honestly when i went in 2001 it was dead .Not much of economic activity and in 2009 it was like Dubai. Beautiful buildings all around.



1979 Iranian revolution where tens of  thousands were killed

Iran Iraq war lasted for 10 years+. This was AFTER whatever 'foundation' Shah laid. $500 Billion damage to Iran (wiki). So many iranians killed that, as I've heard, Male:Female ratio significantly lowered.

Still got any 'foundations' left?


Another example: Pakistan itself. When inherited from India, had very little resources on its own + not to mention the hostility from their neighbour (india).

In the 60s, under Ayub Khan (and previously, MA Zinnah), despite all the odds, Pakistan emerged as a 'miracle economy'. South korea was following its model. Growth rate was very high, on par of the now other Asian tiger economies (Malaysia/singapore etc).

Some of the biggest roads in Dhaka city (previously, east pakistan) was planned by Ayub khan. The parliament building of BD was constructed in his time. Someone I know had worked in Saigol group of the then west pakistan (in the 60s). According to him, the company had luxurious golf courses, its own corporate planes and other stuffs, which meant it could easily compete against any elite company.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 06:19:09 pm by $tyli$h Executive »

Offline $tyli$h Executive

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2011, 06:23:02 pm »
I have been to Tehran and Ehwaz and Qum and i can safely say it has the best infrastructure outside Dubai and Doha in MENA region.

Persians are nationalists and are very proud of their ancestry. They do not like to be dictated to and according to them they were the birthplace of civilization.

They had the foundations laid in 1960s and 1970s during Shah's era and It was really easy to have economic growth on such strong foundation.
This is in addition to the fact their girls are H O T. and they have resources.Like LOTS of it.
So really Iran is very different from other countries

You can look at Libya which had to open to the world after sanctions literally destroyed their country.
I have been to Tripoli too and honestly when i went in 2001 it was dead .Not much of economic activity and in 2009 it was like Dubai. Beautiful buildings all around.

Both Iran and Libya has oil resources. I don't think Iran has something which Libya doesn't apart from good leaders.

After my ^ points, why was libya crippeled by sanctions, whereas Iran continued to thrive starting from the 1979 sanctions (after the iran iraq war, that is?

Offline $tyli$h Executive

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2011, 06:28:19 pm »
This is in addition to the fact their girls are H O T.
So really Iran is very different from other countries

LOL. Yes, this makes them different from many other countries. ::)

But seriously, as far as I know, Iran does not endorse any beauty pageants/contests/whatever because it goes against the islamic law.

........

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2011, 02:32:10 am »
1979 Iranian revolution where tens of  thousands were killed

Iran Iraq war lasted for 10 years+. This was AFTER whatever 'foundation' Shah laid. $500 Billion damage to Iran (wiki). So many iranians killed that, as I've heard, Male:Female ratio significantly lowered.

Still got any 'foundations' left?


Another example: Pakistan itself. When inherited from India, had very little resources on its own + not to mention the hostility from their neighbour (india).

In the 60s, under Ayub Khan (and previously, MA Zinnah), despite all the odds, Pakistan emerged as a 'miracle economy'. South korea was following its model. Growth rate was very high, on par of the now other Asian tiger economies (Malaysia/singapore etc).

Some of the biggest roads in Dhaka city (previously, east pakistan) was planned by Ayub khan. The parliament building of BD was constructed in his time. Someone I know had worked in Saigol group of the then west pakistan (in the 60s). According to him, the company had luxurious golf courses, its own corporate planes and other stuffs, which meant it could easily compete against any elite company.



No no dude. When two developing countries face off the only areas that get affected are the border areas. Iraq and Iran had a costly war yes but for Iran infrastructure loss was only limited to the region facing Iraq. Which means 60 to 78 percent of Iran was safe.

Most of the Iran's oil fields are near the Caspian sea and in the south near Qatar and UAE.

Persians are talented lot yo. Try going into Tehran University Campus and its like facilities and IQ level of debates of Oxbridge all rolled into one.
ut seriously, as far as I know, Iran does not endorse any beauty pageants/contests/whatever because it goes against the islamic law.
Yeah it doesnt but so what. They are still HOT. Most sought after commodities in California  :o

Anyway on a funnier note i would rather be a LDC with Persian females *racist look  ;) *

Offline $tyli$h Executive

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2011, 12:25:43 pm »
No no dude. When two developing countries face off the only areas that get affected are the border areas. Iraq and Iran had a costly war yes but for Iran infrastructure loss was only limited to the region facing Iraq. Which means 60 to 78 percent of Iran was safe.

Most of the Iran's oil fields are near the Caspian sea and in the south near Qatar and UAE.

Persians are talented lot yo. Try going into Tehran University Campus and its like facilities and IQ level of debates of Oxbridge all rolled into one.
ut seriously, as far as I know, Iran does not endorse any beauty pageants/contests/whatever because it goes against the islamic law.
Yeah it doesnt but so what. They are still HOT. Most sought after commodities in California  :o

Anyway on a funnier note i would rather be a LDC with Persian females *racist look  ;) *

Iraq had the military backing of the US and other powerful entities. Iranians fought with their lives at stake and defended their territory, which ultimately resulted in a stalemate, despite much more causalities at the Iranian side. I'm sure that interior areas of Iran were not really safe.

By the way, I knew nothing of this about Iran before I looked in the wikipedia article. Had the typical image that Iran is a completely backward country (I think this opinion is common among people). It is very interesting to see how the international media tries to downplay Iran.

Attachment: Iran's scientific publications compared to other Arab countries. Not to mention that many are not considered because of sanctions.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 12:32:44 pm by $tyli$h Executive »

elemis

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2011, 01:07:47 pm »
Attachment: Iran's scientific publications compared to other Arab countries. Not to mention that many are not considered because of sanctions.

The graph is useless. All over the world the number of scientific papers that are published is increasing. The quality, however, of these papers and their accuracy is falling.

Although, Iran may be responsible for the vast majority of the Arab world's scientific publications it must be remembered that these publications may not hold up once examined by other scientists because of inherent errors.

Offline $tyli$h Executive

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2011, 01:34:26 pm »
The graph is useless. All over the world the number of scientific papers that are published is increasing. The quality, however, of these papers and their accuracy is falling.

Yes, increasing, but Iran's - at an accelerated pace. You have to admit that.

Do you have any evidence to back this up (bolded part)?

Quote
Although, Iran may be responsible for the vast majority of the Arab world's scientific publications it must be remembered that these publications may not hold up once examined by other scientists because of inherent errors.

I think Thompson Reuters (the source) had better idea about which articles carried enough credibility to be classified as a world class 'scientific' article.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 01:52:32 pm by $tyli$h Executive »

Offline $tyli$h Executive

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2011, 07:03:07 pm »
Found some interesting first-hand experience of people visiting iran. Worth a look.

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=65027

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1640443&start=15

........

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2011, 02:30:39 am »
Iraq had the military backing of the US and other powerful entities. Iranians fought with their lives at stake and defended their territory, which ultimately resulted in a stalemate, despite much more causalities at the Iranian side. I'm sure that interior areas of Iran were not really safe.

By the way, I knew nothing of this about Iran before I looked in the wikipedia article. Had the typical image that Iran is a completely backward country (I think this opinion is common among people). It is very interesting to see how the international media tries to downplay Iran.

Attachment: Iran's scientific publications compared to other Arab countries. Not to mention that many are not considered because of sanctions.





Are you serious ? You thought Iran was a backward country ?  :o


There is just no way a Land that gave birth to emperors like Cyrus and Xerxes would be backward. No way in hell.

Offline $tyli$h Executive

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2011, 03:56:01 am »


Are you serious ? You thought Iran was a backward country ?  :o


There is just no way a Land that gave birth to emperors like Cyrus and Xerxes would be backward. No way in hell.

Yes, I'm serious that I thought Iran was a backward country. Stupid of me to believe the int. media and the image projected. But I think a lot of people think this way. :-\

More fun facts about Iran:

ECONOMY

Did you know...
 ...that United Nations classify Iran as high developed country according Human Development Index?
 ...that Iranian capital Tehran is the cheapest city in the World?
 ...that oil revenues makes less then 10% of Iran's Gross Domestic Product?
 ...that average Iranian income (GDP per capita) is higher then some EU members like Romania and Bulgaria?
 ...that thanks to American sanctions Iranian economy is recording growth even during global economic recession?
 ...that Iran has fourth highest government budget surplus in the World?
 ...that Iran is among three countries with lowest external debt to GDP ratio?
 ...that the capital of five million Iranian expatriates is estimated to be more than 1000 billion dollars?
 ...that Iranians control $200 billion worth of assets in Dubai?
 ...that 100% of Iranian population is covered by health care?
 ...that 96% of the needed medicines for domestic market is produced in Iranian pharmaceutical factories?
 ...that Iran has third largest number of bloggers in the World?
 ...that Iran is among ten largest food producers in the World?
 ...that Iran ranks fifth in the World by irrigated land area?
 ...that Iran is among ten World's largest producers of steel and iron?
 ...that Iran has third largest number of vehicles running on CNG in the World?
 ...that Iran is fourth cheapest country by gasoline prices, and third cheapest country by diesel prices?
 ...that thanks to vast reserves of oil, gas & coal and advanced nuclear technology, Iran has the highest energy intensity in the World?
 ...that Iran is among eight largest producers of energy from renewable sources?


SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

Did you know...
 ...that ancient Iranian inventions include refrigerator, windmill, air conditioning and battery?
 ...that ancient Iranian military inventions include spoked wheel, heavy cavalry, chariot and composite bow?
 ...that idea of xenotransplantation was born in Iran before more then 2500 years?
 ...that in ancient Iranian Academy of Gundishapur from 3rd cenutry BC was first medical university in history?
 ...that Iranians were leading scientists during Islamic golden age?
 ...that so-called "Arabic" numbers and decimal positional number system as known today were first developed by Iranian scientist Khwarizmi?
 ...that Iranian scientist Khwarizmi is considered as father of modern algebra and arithmetics, and that he used "Pascal triangle" almost 700 years before Pascal was born?
 ...that Iranian scientist Avicenna is considered as father of modern medicine?
 ...that discovery of distilled alcohol is attributed to Iranian scientist Razi?
 ...that method of anesthesia originates from Iran?
 ...that Iranian astronomer Rahman in 10th century was the first who has recorded a galaxy outwith our own?
 ...that Iranian scientist Biruni was first who has formally proposed that the speed of light is finite?
 ...that Iranian scientists Biruni and Khayyam proposed heliocentric system 500 years before Copernicus?
 ...that officially used Iranian calendar reformed by Omar Khayyam is most precise then all existing calendars, including 600 years more recent Gregorian calendar?
 ...that Iranian scientist Alhazen is considered as father of optics?
 ...that Iranian scientist Tusi proposed theory of evolution 600 years before Darwin?
 ...that Iranian scientist Tusi created the law of conservation of mass 500 years before Lomonosov and Lavoisier?
 ...that decorative ornaments in Iranian city Maragha were assorted by complicated mathematical formulas of aperiodic tiling, 700 years before identical forumales were were discovered in the Western World by R. Penrose?
 ...that Iran was leading producer of scientific instruments in World until Industrial revolution in 19th century?
 ...that planetary popular tradition of academic dress and square hats originates in Iran?
 ...that Iranian government expenditures amounts almost 25% of national budget, or $100 billion per year?
 ...that Iran has eighth largest number of tertiary students in the World (18th by total population)?
 ...that Iran has higher tertiary students per total population ratio then Germany, UK, France, Spain or Italy?
 ...that 69% of Iranian Americans hold bachelor degrees which makes them the most educated minority group in the USA?
 ...that Iran is top of the world in science growth?
 ...that in 2010 Iran was among leading 20 countries by publishing scientific documents, while entering in Top-7 is estimated by 2020?
 ...that Iranian Azadi University with 1.5 million students is the World's largest private university?
 ...that in past 15 years Iranians students won gold medals at International Mathematical and Physical Olympiads and bronze medal at International Chemistry Olympiad?
 ...that Iran is the World's leading country in string theory research?
 ...that Iran is among ten leading countries in stem cell research?
 ...that Iran is second country which successfully closed sheep, and third country which successfully closed cattle?
 ...that Iranian inventions include artificial heart, gas laser and electrochemical nanotechnology?
 ...that Iran is among five leading countries by development of humanoid robots?
 ...that Iran is among eight countries in the World which produce nuclear reactors?
 ...that Iran is among first nine countries in World by production of enriched uranium?
 ...that Iran is among six countries in the World which produce experimental fusion reactors?
 ...that Iran is only country in wider region which produces supercomputers?
 ...that Iran is only country in wider region which produces submarines, destroyers and passanger planes?
 ...that Iran produces 1.4 million motor vehicles annually, more then UK and Russia?
 ...that Iran as among eight countries which launched satellites in space with own technology?
 ...that Iran as among six countries which launched animals in space?
 ...that Iranian Space Agency (ISA) has annual budget of $4 billion which is the highest in the World after American NASA and European ESA?
 ...that Iran is currently only space power in World without a single launch failure recorded?
 ...that Iran is currently competing with Japan, India and Europe to become World's fourth country which launched astronauts in space?

More: http://tisfoon.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=66099

Offline $tyli$h Executive

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Re: Do sanctions have any long term effect?
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2011, 07:26:02 am »
Some more fun facts. (came across while looking for something else)

Did you know
... that the word Iran means 'The Land of the Aryans'?
... that Iran became 9th country in the world to place its own satellite into orbit by using a domestic launcher and the 6th to send animals in space?
... that the Behistun Inscription is Old Persian's equivalent of the Rosetta Stone?
... that Mashhad is the second largest holy city in the world and Imam Reza shrine is visited by more than 20 million pilgrims every year?
... that Astan Quds Razavi is considered as the most long-lasting organization which exists since about 1200 years ago?
... that the oldest traces of wine found in Iran date to over 7000 years ago?
... that the first Iranian empire, that of the Medes, was established over 3000 years ago?
... that the Persian language is one of the oldest languages in continuous use?
... that the notions of heaven and hell are already alluded to in the teachings of Zarathustra?
... that several world religions - including Zoroastrianism and the Bahá'í Faith - originated in Iran?
... that Iran has the largest Shi'a population in the world with nearly 65 million believers?
... that Iran has the 18th largest economy in the world by PPP?
... that Persians first dug up the Suez canal, circa 500 BC?
... that ice cream was likely invented in Iran?
... that Iran is the largest producer of pistachio, berries, caviar, saffron and stone fruits in the world?
... that the peach, pomegranate and pistachio were first cultivated in Iran?
... that the first known electric battery was invented by the Parthians, an Iranian people?
... that the words cheque, caviar, caravan, tulip, algorithm, chess, checkmate, jasmine, Navy, Paradise and pajamas all have a Persian language roots?
... that the Milad tower in Tehran is the 12th tallest freestanding structure in the world and held the title as the tallest tower in the Middle East until the Burj Khalifa passed it?
... that Iran is home to the biggest Jewish population in Asia (outside Israel), and there are reserved seats for Christian and Jewish MPs in the Iranian parliament?
... that Iran has second largest oil reserves and the second largest natural gas reserves in the world and is potentially an energy superpower?
... that Iran is the largest car manufacturer in the Middle East?
... that Iran is amongst the top 10 in the world in stem cell research?
... that Iran is one of the largest dam builders in the world?
... that Iran is among the first five countries which have had a growth rate of over 20% and the highest level of development in telecommunication in recent years?
... that 60% of students enrolled in Iranian universities are women?
... that Iran has the highest academic publishing growth rate in the world and its science progress growth is fastest globally?
... that more than two-thirds of the 70 million Iranians are under the age of 30?
... that the history of Iran goes back nearly 5,000 years?
... that Iran has one of the largest troop mobilization in the world with nearly 1 million on active duty?
... that the UN's General Assembly recognizes the International Day of Nowruz, describing it a spring festival of Persian origin which has been celebrated for over 3,000 years?