IGCSE/GCSE/O & A Level/IB/University Student Forum
Teachers and Students => Debates => Topic started by: slvri on November 16, 2009, 01:10:09 pm
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come on ppl wat do u think?
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i think yes it should be explored n get to kno whas out there.
With exploration we get to discover new things which are outta our imaginations ooo...loll
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Oh yes definitely!
At the rate humans are reproducing, we will need to expand our colony to the corners of the universe!
...very soon.
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Oh yes definitely!
At the rate humans are reproducing, we will need to expand our colony to the corners of the universe!
...very soon.
LMAO!
buh earth is just enough :D
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LMAO!
buh earth is just enough :D
The earth is just enough for us to survive.
But it won't be enough for your great grandchildren... I bet.
And that's why we need spaceships... and fast!
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NOT
why not? cuz we got plenty of problems over here, why are we supposed to waste money taking pictures of mars and the moon when we got a gazillion ppl without water or adequate nutrition? dont temme that bs about finding water on moon, its still too much money
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NOT
why not? cuz we got plenty of problems over here, why are we supposed to waste money taking pictures of mars and the moon when we got a gazillion ppl without water or adequate nutrition? dont temme that bs about finding water on moon, its still too much money
Point taken. It is a lot of money, and it would be better to use more money on the millions of people without water.
But the world is one day going to run out of fresh water and resources, not to mention how much damage we are doing to the earth. It's not a bad idea to go looking for a planet or moon capable of sustaining life.
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Point taken. It is a lot of money, and it would be better to use more money on the millions of people without water.
But the world is one day going to run out of fresh water and resources, not to mention how much damage we are doing to the earth. It's not a bad idea to go looking for a planet or moon capable of sustaining life.
lol good points
on the other hand, we can keep on messing up earth and let our grandchildren carve their own life! you dont see us crying cuz our great grandfathers killed the dinosaurs and mamoths now are we :D
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Yes, I agree. Good point. :)
Space exploration consumes much more of our resources.
But tell me one thing, do not things like the cinema, games and sports gulp in much more money?Are these not wastes? Apart from leisure and pleasure, what do we get from them? If money is to be moved to solve pressing socio-economic problems like poverty, famine and over-population, shouldn't it be removed from these activities first?
Poverty and famine exist and will continue to exist-- not because we have too few resources, more money can always be issued, but because in the first place we have too many mouths to feed (over-population) and in the second place, some people "live to eat", wealth is not distributed equitably (most said poor countries are infested with corruption).
Space exploration is a huge investment, I don't deny. But it's a productive one. Anyway, only developed countries-- those who can afford the money-- dare to invest in aeronautics. The NASA does not snatch away food and potable water from the poor to fill its fuel tanks. Besides, space stations are collective investments-- rich countries like the USA, Japan, Russia and others group together to spread risks, especially financial ones.
How about wars? And the military? Are these productive? Or rather destructive? How much money do we lose in them? It's better to ask how much money is left after?? LOL
Man-driven problems, are they to be alleviated, if not solved, must be done with rationale. The solution does not lie in our pockets, but in our brains. If poverty is to be lessened, it's by starting to diminish corruption and wars. And money helps to aggravate these two factors.
Were there no space exploration, we would still be living in delusion. We would still believe the Sun revolves around the Earth; night would be when the Snake God swallowed the Sun God Ra; no satellite-- no internet, no television, no mass communication; there would be no universe at all; no notion of time; the moon would be a big mass of cheese suspended on the sky; eclipses would be bad omens, we would be doing unreasonable sacrifices to please the Gods (can you imagine your skin being plucked?); we would never understand phenomena like Global Warming and we could even be destroying our planet in a better way.
Maybe then... we would be like our mammoth-killing forefathers, ignorant beings who still believe the Earth is flat and would be wasting a whole lifetime trying to get to the extreme of our 'flat' Earth...
Nice idea the debate, carry on :)!
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watch 2012 nd the day after tommrow :P
both sides of the arguemnts get ana nswer there :P
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I can give you the answer now... Two films will take up 3 hours! Take just 3 seconds, and think. ;)
We need a satellite to watch it!! :P :P
So, we also need to have explored space...
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stil lwatch the movies :P they are pretty good :P
and about exploring space.... ppl shud do it not only bcoz of the reasons tht make it more esssential to carry out but also do it just for the hell of it ...
humans are a curious race :p we need to know stuff happening arnd us jsut because its HAPPENING :d
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We are living... I need to know why we live.... Keeping religious views aside... :P :P :P :P
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we are living bcoz we dont hav ny other choice :P
if we were thrown into Mars from before... who knows .... we myt hav adjusted to the atmosphere there :O
i guess its too late now :P
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Yes, I agree. Good point. :)
Space exploration consumes much more of our resources.
But tell me one thing, do not things like the cinema, games and sports gulp in much more money?Are these not wastes? Apart from leisure and pleasure, what do we get from them? If money is to be moved to solve pressing socio-economic problems like poverty, famine and over-population, shouldn't it be removed from these activities first?
Yea thats ryte, i agree with that actually, cutting down movie productions but not sports. Movies might look fancy and whatnot, but nothing is more vivid and detailed as a nice novel. As for the sports, it might cost a lot, but I think it is worth it. The entertainment might be the main thing, but you also need to keep in mind that the money gained from television rights and stadium tickets is no tsimply stuffed into the owner's and copyright holders' pockets; a lot of that money is gone into developing youth programs, where players (just look at Nigerian and Ivorian players, the country itself might not be so rich, but when the once-poor players start getting rich, they invest their money into developing athletic academies, which takes away kids who don't even get proper education into something more useful. When these players start getting rich, it is not a great surprise when you see them spending heavy amounts of money into the education of their children, which on the not-so-long term (comon, its only one generation :P )will raise the average education level of that country. Aeuronautics might be productive, but they consume waaaay too much money than any other field, compare the costs of all cinema businesses in the USA, Europe, and Japan to the costs of Aeronautics in just one of them, i am sure it will not be anywhere near the cinemas. Yes, actors are overpaid, and yes, that should be cut down too, but not by as much the the spending on taking pics of Mars (man that sounds so touristic :P)
Poverty and famine exist and will continue to exist-- not because we have too few resources, more money can always be issued, but because in the first place we have too many mouths to feed (over-population) and in the second place, some people "live to eat", wealth is not distributed equitably (most said poor countries are infested with corruption).
Yups, very true, which is why more money should be spent on education and civil engineering than anything else (referring to Africa especially). And hey, if people wanna "live to eat" then simple, raise the prices of the fancy foods, oh wait they're already high, damn. Yes, corruption, main reason why everyone's going all over Canada US and Europe lol, but yea.
Space exploration is a huge investment, I don't deny. But it's a productive one. Anyway, only developed countries-- those who can afford the money-- dare to invest in aeronautics. The NASA does not snatch away food and potable water from the poor to fill its fuel tanks. Besides, space stations are collective investments-- rich countries like the USA, Japan, Russia and others group together to spread risks, especially financial ones.
Well as far as the moon goes then fine, i guess it won't hurt if they go there, but TRYING, to reach Mars, TRYING to find alternative life forms, this all seems like money gone to waste, just cuz ur rich doesnt mean you have the ryte to throw your money on the floor, or space :P
How about wars? And the military? Are these productive? Or rather destructive? How much money do we lose in them? It's better to ask how much money is left after?? LOL
I don't think anyone will disagree on this, wats should not be hapennin in the first place. If, nevertheless, money is still wasted on weaponary, does that mean we're supposed to waste even more money on space?
Man-driven problems, are they to be alleviated, if not solved, must be done with rationale. The solution does not lie in our pockets, but in our brains. If poverty is to be lessened, it's by starting to diminish corruption and wars. And money helps to aggravate these two factors.
Brains is the most essential thing, but without resources, which cost money. Sure, we can teach people for low costs, but applying this education will be impossible without resources; we can't build a villa if we havent got cement now can we
Were there no space exploration, we would still be living in delusion. We would still believe the Sun revolves around the Earth; night would be when the Snake God swallowed the Sun God Ra; no satellite-- no internet, no television, no mass communication; there would be no universe at all; no notion of time; the moon would be a big mass of cheese suspended on the sky; eclipses would be bad omens, we would be doing unreasonable sacrifices to please the Gods (can you imagine your skin being plucked?); we would never understand phenomena like Global Warming and we could even be destroying our planet in a better way.
This is all true (duh), and yes you me and everyone will not be able to survive without these. But now you mentioned global warming and whatnot, now wouldn't it be more sensible if money is spent until these effects are totally under control, THEN we might move on to the next phenomenon? Or are we just gonna be identifying more and more catastrophes and just sit down and watch em hit us?
Maybe then... we would be like our mammoth-killing forefathers, ignorant beings who still believe the Earth is flat and would be wasting a whole lifetime trying to get to the extreme of our 'flat' Earth...
Yea true lol, but again, we must get rid of the problems on hand before moving on to the next one :)
Nice idea the debate, carry on :)!
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this post is tooo long for me to read :P
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this post is tooo long for me to read :P
hlaf of it is quotes from Alpha's
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Hey....Yea... It's long...LOL
Sorry for Saturday, there was a power cut... Sunday, I was not home... Today, logged in and I found that I missed a lot! ::) ;D
Be right back... Have to install few programs, then join you. :)
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Hey....Yea... It's long...LOL
Sorry for Saturday, there was a power cut... Sunday, I was not home... Today, logged in and I found that I missed a lot! ::) ;D
Be right back... Have to install few programs, then join you. :)
lol okay, take your time
and yea this forum is weired, sometimes you can be absent for a week and not miss a thing and other times you miss a day you miss everything lol
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Yea thats ryte, i agree with that actually, cutting down movie productions but not sports. Movies might look fancy and whatnot, but nothing is more vivid and detailed as a nice novel. As for the sports, it might cost a lot, but I think it is worth it. The entertainment might be the main thing, but you also need to keep in mind that the money gained from television rights and stadium tickets is no tsimply stuffed into the owner's and copyright holders' pockets; a lot of that money is gone into developing youth programs, where players (just look at Nigerian and Ivorian players, the country itself might not be so rich, but when the once-poor players start getting rich, they invest their money into developing athletic academies, which takes away kids who don't even get proper education into something more useful. When these players start getting rich, it is not a great surprise when you see them spending heavy amounts of money into the education of their children, which on the not-so-long term (comon, its only one generation )will raise the average education level of that country. Aeuronautics might be productive, but they consume waaaay too much money than any other field, compare the costs of all cinema businesses in the USA, Europe, and Japan to the costs of Aeronautics in just one of them, i am sure it will not be anywhere near the cinemas. Yes, actors are overpaid, and yes, that should be cut down too, but not by as much the the spending on taking pics of Mars (man that sounds so touristic :P)
LOL
Excuse me... for your kind information:
1) Add the costs of these movies:Cleopatra $ 290.2 m, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End $300m, Spider-Man 3 $258m, Superman Returns $268.5 m, Waterworld $175 m... The films are endless, made every year, costing large sums every year... While agree the Space Stations cost billions, but are not recurrent projects.
2) The Opening Ceremony of the Olympic Games at Beijing cost $ 100 m alone. And for how long did they last? Days? Montreal, Quebec, Canada had spent C$1.61 billion on the Summer Olympics and their citizens had to repay the debts for 30 years after the Games were over. The repercussion of holding the Games had been borne by future generations. 30 years lost for a few days... Is this not a waste?
Actors are paid on an individual basis, what they do with this money concerns them. There is no law that dictates they ought to 'share' it. A large sum for ONE MAN.
Space exploration consumes money too, agree. But the benefits derived accrue to the whole world. A large sum for MANKIND.
In any way, that money is to be spent. But before using it, a weight must be sought. Do we spend it on a majority or a minority? Do we spend it for the long term or the short term? For a leisure activity or a necessity?
Yups, very true, which is why more money should be spent on education and civil engineering than anything else (referring to Africa especially). And hey, if people wanna "live to eat" then simple, raise the prices of the fancy foods, oh wait they're already high, damn. Yes, corruption, main reason why everyone's going all over Canada US and Europe lol, but yea.
Raising prices is not a solution. Were it that easy, some of the intelligent people living on Earth would have done it long ago. :P
If prices are raised, trade unions put pressure on employers for wage increments. Besides, people restrict their consumption when they cannot afford to pay (well, that's supposed to be our aim). Costs (i.e. wages) increase and at the same time demand decreases-- producers will cut down production and consequently employ fewer people. Supply will decrease-- there is a shortage, prices increase again (where is our aim lost now? :P). Well, fancy foods are not necessities but yea, some rich people will continue to consume them to maintain society's superiority complex. So, we'll leave the elasticity of demand... Let's assume demand remains unchanged. Unemployment also rises, trade unions lose their bargaining power-- wages can no longer be increased. They may even decrease.
So, you see. On the whole, society is worse off when the prices are increased.
* I don't know if you study Economics... I've tried to make it simpler... ::)*
Well as far as the moon goes then fine, i guess it won't hurt if they go there, but TRYING, to reach Mars, TRYING to find alternative life forms, this all seems like money gone to waste, just cuz ur rich doesnt mean you have the ryte to throw your money on the floor, or space :P
Money gone to waste? Can you tell me why? Because they found traces of life on Mars? They discovered other galaxies? They could explore our Solar System? Cause we know a comet is approaching us? Spend huge sums to reach on the moon, and stop there itself? Would this not have been a waste?
Just cause you're rich doesn't also mean you have the right to throw this money into fancies and follies. :P
I don't think anyone will disagree on this, wats should not be hapennin in the first place. If, nevertheless, money is still wasted on weaponary, does that mean we're supposed to waste even more money on space?
If by removing this wasted money from warfare where people die in millions into another 'waste', as you say, space, then yes, it's much more sensible.
It's better to remove a dagger from a monkey's hand and give it to a donkey. The monkey can surely hurt more people with the dagger; the donkey has no hands to do the same. :D
Brains is the most essential thing, but without resources, which cost money. Sure, we can teach people for low costs, but applying this education will be impossible without resources; we can't build a villa if we havent got cement now can we
You can't build a villa if you have no land first, can you?? Cement is just a raw material, a resource. Money is only a financial resource. Land is the BASE. Brains are the essential, you said it. What's the use of having money if you have no brain to be able to use it properly? Again, it's a dagger in a monkey's hand. :P
This is all true (duh), and yes you me and everyone will not be able to survive without these. But now you mentioned global warming and whatnot, now wouldn't it be more sensible if money is spent until these effects are totally under control, THEN we might move on to the next phenomenon? Or are we just gonna be identifying more and more catastrophes and just sit down and watch em hit us?
Alright, for this one, I'm just gonna ask you a simple question.
You are on a road. A truck is coming at top speed in your direction. You are running away from it to save your life. A double decker is also rushing in the opposite direction. What will you do? Solve the first problem then the second? You will first run away from the truck, towards the double decker and then later, run away from the double decker, towards the truck? :P Or will you move to the side?
Yea true lol, but again, we must get rid of the problems on hand before moving on to the next one :)
I disagree here. We should be dealing with emergencies first and then move on to other problems with less impact.
We should start by identifying the emergencies. I think you already know how. :)
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Man i was the first one to start the quote-as-you-reply thingy, and damn i didnt know it was THAT panful when you wanna reply!
LOL
Excuse me... for your kind information:
1) Add the costs of these movies:Cleopatra $ 290.2 m, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End $300m, Spider-Man 3 $258m, Superman Returns $268.5 m, Waterworld $175 m... The films are endless, made every year, costing large sums every year... While agree the Space Stations cost billions, but are not recurrent projects.
2) The Opening Ceremony of the Olympic Games at Beijing cost $ 100 m alone. And for how long did they last? Days? Montreal, Quebec, Canada had spent C$1.61 billion on the Summer Olympics and their citizens had to repay the debts for 30 years after the Games were over. The repercussion of holding the Games had been borne by future generations. 30 years lost for a few days... Is this not a waste?
Actors are paid on an individual basis, what they do with this money concerns them. There is no law that dictates they ought to 'share' it. A large sum for ONE MAN.
not sure if i mentioned thos, but i thought i already said this, they SHOULDNT be paid so much money in the first place! its outrageous how some of them big actors make more money than better-educated engineers and doctors
Space exploration consumes money too, agree. But the benefits derived accrue to the whole world. A large sum for MANKIND.
yea i didnt disagree on that, but we got enough problems in hand, malnutrition or lack of professionals in many regions, for example. I am not saying its unimportant, it IS important, but i am saying wouldnt it be better if we, for example, try to reforest east Africa, end their starvation, build them schools and improve their living, and hence have higher productivity in that region? if enough resources are put into it, this shouldnt take more than a couple of decades or three at max. These explorations might or might not yield the expected results, yes the space exploration gave us internet and tv, but now this water they wanna find in Mars, even if they did find it, which so far they are not, how much will it cost to bring it to earth? same thing for the different life forms, there may, or may not, nothing is for granted.
In any way, that money is to be spent. But before using it, a weight must be sought. Do we spend it on a majority or a minority? Do we spend it for the long term or the short term? For a leisure activity or a necessity?
Raising prices is not a solution. Were it that easy, some of the intelligent people living on Earth would have done it long ago. :P
If prices are raised, trade unions put pressure on employers for wage increments. Besides, people restrict their consumption when they cannot afford to pay (well, that's supposed to be our aim). Costs (i.e. wages) increase and at the same time demand decreases-- producers will cut down production and consequently employ fewer people. Supply will decrease-- there is a shortage, prices increase again (where is our aim lost now? :P). Well, fancy foods are not necessities but yea, some rich people will continue to consume them to maintain society's superiority complex. So, we'll leave the elasticity of demand... Let's assume demand remains unchanged. Unemployment also rises, trade unions lose their bargaining power-- wages can no longer be increased. They may even decrease.
So, you see. On the whole, society is worse off when the prices are increased.
* I don't know if you study Economics... I've tried to make it simpler... ::)*
well yea i did actually but its all blur now :D and yea i remember all this supply/demand whatnot, but i was saying that if the price of lux and classy food was raised, then wouldnt this help make em save their money? well anyways, if its too much economics then nevermind lol
Money gone to waste? Can you tell me why? Because they found traces of life on Mars? They discovered other galaxies? They could explore our Solar System? Cause we know a comet is approaching us? Spend huge sums to reach on the moon, and stop there itself? Would this not have been a waste?
well yea they found the traces and the galaxies, now what?
Just cause you're rich doesn't also mean you have the right to throw this money into fancies and follies. :P
yea thas ryte :P they should spend it on the regions with potential!
If by removing this wasted money from warfare where people die in millions into another 'waste', as you say, space, then yes, it's much more sensible.
It's better to remove a dagger from a monkey's hand and give it to a donkey. The monkey can surely hurt more people with the dagger; the donkey has no hands to do the same. :D
lol yea, thas EXACTLY what i meant :P
You can't build a villa if you have no land first, can you?? Cement is just a raw material, a resource. Money is only a financial resource. Land is the BASE. Brains are the essential, you said it. What's the use of having money if you have no brain to be able to use it properly? Again, it's a dagger in a monkey's hand. :P
okay either am lost, or you agreed with what i said
Alright, for this one, I'm just gonna ask you a simple question.
You are on a road. A truck is coming at top speed in your direction. You are running away from it to save your life. A double decker is also rushing in the opposite direction. What will you do? Solve the first problem then the second? You will first run away from the truck, towards the double decker and then later, run away from the double decker, towards the truck? :P Or will you move to the side?
I disagree here. We should be dealing with emergencies first and then move on to other problems with less impact.
We should start by identifying the emergencies. I think you already know how. :)
well yea, emergencies, wouldnt these be prevent global warming and eliminate famine?
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Man i was the first one to start the quote-as-you-reply thingy, and damn i didnt know it was THAT panful when you wanna reply!
Couldn't you make it simpler to distinguish? :P
not sure if i mentioned thos, but i thought i already said this, they SHOULDNT be paid so much money in the first place! its outrageous how some of them big actors make more money than better-educated engineers and doctors
What I meant in simpler terms:
You say money is not enough to solve socio-economic problems. You agree actors shouldn't be paid that much money. I know. Then, remove money from THERE, why should we remove from space?
yea i didnt disagree on that, but we got enough problems in hand, malnutrition or lack of professionals in many regions, for example. I am not saying its unimportant, it IS important, but i am saying wouldnt it be better if we, for example, try to reforest east Africa, end their starvation, build them schools and improve their living, and hence have higher productivity in that region? if enough resources are put into it, this shouldnt take more than a couple of decades or three at max.
We also have so many problems in our own houses, then why should we spend our time and resources solving society's problems? Why should we spend money helping other nations when there are so many problems in our own countries? Why should we spend so much to cross the oceans when we have so many problems here on land? Why should we worry about our neighbours? Don't we have enough worries ourselves?
We have so many problems here on Earth, then why should we spend so much money in space? WHY?
We should explore space BECAUSE we have so many problems here on Earth.
Reaching new heights, crossing boundaries and going beyond the unexpected often creates new opportunities for finding solutions and identifying the inputs (or resources) needed to implement these solutions. More than that, it brings back hope to the starting point. Light from outside the cave can help to get rid of the darkness which is inside the cave.
Deforestation, famine, poverty, overpopulation, unemployment, the economic crisis, all of these problems diverge from the SAME source-- WE LACK RESOURCES.
I correct something here. Money is not a resource, but a financial asset, economically speaking. We can't ignore the economic concept since it is directly related to rational. Money is merely an asset, a medium of exchange, it is not a raw material. Money itself does not bring about any output. Rather it helps to acquire the resources needed.
Resources found on Earth do not suffice for our needs. We need room for expansion. Till how long will humanity keep sucking the last few drops of blood because of which our globe still sustains life? For how long will we remain confined here, dependent on what our soil, skies and oceans can offer? What is there wrong if we are looking for other resources in space?
We need the resources in the Solar System and galaxies to be able to alleviate problems HERE. Humanity is a growing and evolving species while the Earth does not grow in size. Overpopulation-- we need place for the surplus people. Where else do we go searching for place if not in space? Now don't tell me people should be using more condoms. Prevention will bear result in the long term. Our problem is ALREADY here.
So what if it would take a long time to find some other habitable place (which is unlikely) or 'build' a place in space capable of sustaining life (which is more likely)? The problem IS there, we should make a start somewhere.
Space exploration triggers research and development. It catalyzes technological advancement, including power, computing, nanotechnology, biotechnology, communications, networking, robotics... It creates a growing need for more educated people, for astronauts, engineers, astronomers-- it creates employment. Evolving technology and greater brain power can help us solve problems HERE on Earth.
The world's oil and gas reserves are being depleted. That's why we should explore space to find other substitutes.
These explorations might or might not yield the expected results, yes the space exploration gave us internet and tv, but now this water they wanna find in Mars, even if they did find it, which so far they are not, how much will it cost to bring it to earth? same thing for the different life forms, there may, or may not, nothing is for granted.
You are worried about the cost? What about lives??
Traces of water, which is a key ingredient to life, have been found on Mars and the moons of Jupiter. Maybe now we don't have the means or need to bring that water down to Earth. But what will happen if our water reserves here are completely dried up? From where will we find more water to satisfy our future generations' daily needs?
Uncertainty-- to me, uncertainty has been playing a lame role in history. Our earlier hunter gatherers were not sure they would find food in the seas and oceans if they left searching for it on land. Christopher Columbus didn't know there would be a vast continent behind the horizon. Earlier astronomers either didn't know there would be other planets sharing our Solar System.
This is the very essence of exploration-- we explore BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW. Because there may and may not be. Our problems here on Earth NEED to be solves because there is NOWHERE to go yet. Exploration has been the greatest justification since ever. Till we do not EXPLORE space, we will continue to gaze at the stars from the ground and keep wondering about what's there above our heads.
My friend, Stephen Hawking, wants to help me with his quote (Alright, am kidding :P):
"We once thought we were at the centre of the Universe. Then we thought the sun was. Eventually, we realised we were just on the edge of one of billions of galaxies. Soon we may have to humbly accept that our 3D universe is just one of many multi-dimensional worlds."
well yea they found the traces and the galaxies, now what?
Now they have to find ways to utilize the untapped energy that can be derived from space, the mineral resources of the Moon.
"A two-kilometer-wide asteroid holds more metal than all the ore mined on Earth since the beginning of civilization. Half of asteroids are water rich."
We have here on Earth a scary demand for building materials and a pitiful supply. We can use space materials for our own construction purposes on Earth, for agriculture, metallurgy, pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, welding, shipping, mining,... Brief, everything. ;)
Mostly everything can be made in space at a cheaper cost using materials from there. Opportunities for us to expand, to create jobs, to do business and accumulate wealth can be created there in space, especially when we do not have enough space to expand down here.
yea thas ryte :P they should spend it on the regions with potential!
Right, on the regions with potential-- space is a region with INFINITE potential!
Excerpt:
"The planets and moons bare the scars of a tumultuous history. None of them have gone through their lengthy existence unscathed by the violent impact of asteroids and comets.
Uranus was toppled off its axis by a giant planetoid the size of our own world and its moon Miranda was torn apart and reassembled in the process. Mars is a world that was murdered in its early infancy before it had any chance of completely fulfilling its promise of becoming an abode of life. Most of its crust and atmosphere were flayed and ejected into space by impacts with giant asteroids and comets.
Towards the late nineteenth and throughout the twentieth centuries some one hundred and fifty impact craters have been discovered on our own planetary abode. In the twentieth century two impacts occurred in Eastern Russia. On June 30th, 1908, Moscow escaped destruction by three hours and four thousand kilometres—when an object some 70 meters in diameter impacted the Siberian region of Tunguska with the explosive yield of 1000 Hiroshima bombs. On February 12th, 1947, another Russian city had a still narrower escape, when the second great meteorite of the last century detonated less than four hundred kilometres from Vladivostok in a rain of rock and iron. On August 10th, 1972 the Earth survived a near direct hit and escaped with a mere flesh wound when a meteorite zoomed over the state of Wyoming and grazed the upper atmosphere and bounced back into space before thousands of eyewitnesses. Its blazing trail was even captured on film.
In the early 1980s evidence slowly accumulated that sixty-five million years ago the reign of the dinosaurs ended with a huge bang and ensuing fire storm. Before that violent mass extinctions occurred like clockwork throughout the evolutionary history of life on Earth.
The Moon, a world of on our very doorstep, provides a clear warning for all to see that our world is living on borrowed time. In the chronicle of Gervase an eyewitness account was given of a massive impact on the eastern limb of the Moon that occurred on June 25th, 1178. Evidence is also coming to light that June, despite our fondness for this month because of weddings and the promise of summer holidays to come, holds potential dangers for humanity. The Taurid beta meteor shower is one we must study in detail. It is the progenitor of both the Tunguska fireball and the object that created the blast recorded by Gervase, and lurking in its wake are more potential disasters to come.
In the late 20th century archaeological evidence has come to light that many late Bronze Age civilizations may have met their demise in a rain of fire from the sky. Back in July, 1994 during the week of the 25th anniversary marking man's first steps on the Moon the heavens provided a massive fireworks display of their own to mark the occasion. The planet Jupiter sustained twenty individual impacts from the fragments left over from the disintegration of the comet Shoemaker–Levy 9. Any one of these impacts would have been sufficient in themselves to wipe life off the face of our globe in a real Extinction Level Event (E.L.E).
Yet despite all this accumulated evidence we continue to go about our humdrum worldly concerns, abandoning any attention to the heavens and the dangers that lurk in the local celestial neighbourhood. We face the celestial equivalent of a 9/11. Humanity can no longer ignore the objective reality that its long term existence is imperilled. We either become a spacefaring civilization or face the fate of the dinosaurs."
Talking of money, $ 12 million is spent per hour in Iraq by the US government while the NASA takes less then 1% of the US budget.
To what extent do we depend on the internet? How many businesses will shrink without it? What would be the state of our fields and farms were there no satellites to predict weather changes? What would have happened to the ozone hole? The Sun will boil our oceans in 50 million years. Where then do we go?
Exploring space helps us to know about planets, understand their functioning, identify the factors that affect them. Our Earth is a planet too, isn't it?
External factors can affect us all here. What happens there in space can influence what happens here on ground. Space is not OUTSIDE, WE are inside.
Space exploration is not spending money on what is not a part of us, WE are a part of the universe.
Exploring space may cost money. But NOT exploring space is much, much more expensive.
lol yea, thas EXACTLY what i meant :P
okay either am lost, or you agreed with what i said
No, I still stick to what I had said earlier. :P
Brains are more important than resources. Investing twice, thrice, a thousand times, a billion times into a failing project does not make it a successful one.
The world has about a 60 trillion/year economy. We do not lack money. What we lack are proper planning, fruitful efforts, productive use of this money. Equal distribution, better thinking and responsible citizens-- these are the real ingredients for a more peaceful and better world.
Use cement, wood, steel, glass, thatches, leaves, or whatever you want, if you don't have land, you would better throw all your materials in the ocean. :P
If you don't have the essential ingredients, you are just throwing your money away.
well yea, emergencies, wouldnt these be prevent global warming and eliminate famine?
Can we prevent Global Warming without exploring space?? I've already discussed about the other problems above.
Even a slight knowledge about what is bigger and more powerful than us can help us bring great changes to OUR lives, OUR problems. We all know Nature's Law: Survival of the Fittest. The race which explores, opens new doors, expands, colonizes, dares the difficult and softens the hard is the race that survives. I have not invented it, history is witness. Since the beginning of time, the weaker ones have been conquered or destroyed by the stronger ones. Civilizations that have learnt to survive on Earth are those whose existence have been carried forward to the future. We are exploring because we are learning to survive in space.
Leave alone all the reasons. Our own human nature pushes us to explore, as Master said. (By the way, where is he lost? :P)
Life is worth living till life is worth discovering. Today humanity has the potential to seek answers to questions that before were unimaginable.
We wonder, look out for the undiscovered and step in, crossing all frontiers.
We explore beyond the Earth for the same reason that Mount Everest was climbed:
"Because it is there."
:)
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whoa it just made me dizz off damn...soo long.....shoot loll
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:o :o :o :o :o :o GOSHHHHHH!! U people write A LOT !!!!!!!!
WOOOOOOOOOH!
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I won't get into the debate...it involves a lot of reading of the previous posts :P
But the idea of space exploration really fascinates me....when I was a kid, I wanted to work with NASA :D
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Zara, Shoushou...
We don't care about the length, we care about the contents. ;)
SHOT ;) :D!
@Nid, we have only 2 pages for this one... Come on, did your teacher never tell you that reading is a good habit to cultivate? ;) :P
Hehe, when I was a kid too, okay, I still am one, I wanted to work for them too! We share the same fantasy. LOL :D
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Zara, Shoushou...
We don't care about the length, we care about the contents. ;)
SHOT ;) :D!
@Nid, we have only 2 pages for this one... Come on, did your teacher never tell you that reading is a good habit to cultivate? ;) :P
Hehe, when I was a kid too, okay, I still am one, I wanted to work for them too! We share the same fantasy. LOL :D
arreh baba.....im tooo lazy to read now :P
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arreh baba.....im tooo lazy to read now :P
Arreh... Didn't your Mum tell you now, Laziness is a bad habit!!! :P :D :D :D
Alright, am just kidding... Peace :)
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Couldn't you make it simpler to distinguish? :P
lol i thought about that after i posted. well you see you put my qriting in normal and urs in bold, i thought u did vice-versa lol :D
What I meant in simpler terms:
You say money is not enough to solve socio-economic problems. You agree actors shouldn't be paid that much money. I know. Then, remove money from THERE, why should we remove from space?
WEll not remove, just don't add as much as there already is is what i meant lol. I still think its a lot of money, but since its already bin started, then we myte as well see them finish off what they started instead of just leaving it half way unfinished
We also have so many problems in our own houses, then why should we spend our time and resources solving society's problems? Why should we spend money helping other nations when there are so many problems in our own countries? Why should we spend so much to cross the oceans when we have so many problems here on land? Why should we worry about our neighbours? Don't we have enough worries ourselves?
We have so many problems here on Earth, then why should we spend so much money in space? WHY?
We should explore space BECAUSE we have so many problems here on Earth.
Reaching new heights, crossing boundaries and going beyond the unexpected often creates new opportunities for finding solutions and identifying the inputs (or resources) needed to implement these solutions. More than that, it brings back hope to the starting point. Light from outside the cave can help to get rid of the darkness which is inside the cave.
Deforestation, famine, poverty, overpopulation, unemployment, the economic crisis, all of these problems diverge from the SAME source-- WE LACK RESOURCES.
well yea okay thats convincing enough for me ;D
I correct something here. Money is not a resource, but a financial asset, economically speaking. We can't ignore the economic concept since it is directly related to rational. Money is merely an asset, a medium of exchange, it is not a raw material. Money itself does not bring about any output. Rather it helps to acquire the resources needed.
well yea (i took economics before, but i am a bit rusty obviously) but money is the main incentive for the labour to raise their productivity (i think, cant remember) ryte?
So what if it would take a long time to find some other habitable place (which is unlikely) or 'build' a place in space capable of sustaining life (which is more likely)? The problem IS there, we should make a start somewhere.
Space exploration triggers research and development. It catalyzes technological advancement, including power, computing, nanotechnology, biotechnology, communications, networking, robotics... It creates a growing need for more educated people, for astronauts, engineers, astronomers-- it creates employment. Evolving technology and greater brain power can help us solve problems HERE on Earth.
Well okay, again you got me there, again :)
The world's oil and gas reserves are being depleted. That's why we should explore space to find other substitutes.
You are worried about the cost? What about lives??
Traces of water, which is a key ingredient to life, have been found on Mars and the moons of Jupiter. Maybe now we don't have the means or need to bring that water down to Earth. But what will happen if our water reserves here are completely dried up? From where will we find more water to satisfy our future generations' daily needs?
i'm sure by that time the world would have come to an end :D i really cant see us or our grandchildren living in a spaceship :D
Uncertainty-- to me, uncertainty has been playing a lame role in history. Our earlier hunter gatherers were not sure they would find food in the seas and oceans if they left searching for it on land. Christopher Columbus didn't know there would be a vast continent behind the horizon. Earlier astronomers either didn't know there would be other planets sharing our Solar System.
This is the very essence of exploration-- we explore BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW. Because there may and may not be. Our problems here on Earth NEED to be solves because there is NOWHERE to go yet. Exploration has been the greatest justification since ever. Till we do not EXPLORE space, we will continue to gaze at the stars from the ground and keep wondering about what's there above our heads.
okay, can i change sides now? :P
My friend, Stephen Hawking, wants to help me with his quote (Alright, am kidding :P):
"We once thought we were at the centre of the Universe. Then we thought the sun was. Eventually, we realised we were just on the edge of one of billions of galaxies. Soon we may have to humbly accept that our 3D universe is just one of many multi-dimensional worlds."
Now they have to find ways to utilize the untapped energy that can be derived from space, the mineral resources of the Moon.
"A two-kilometer-wide asteroid holds more metal than all the ore mined on Earth since the beginning of civilization. Half of asteroids are water rich."
We have here on Earth a scary demand for building materials and a pitiful supply. We can use space materials for our own construction purposes on Earth, for agriculture, metallurgy, pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, welding, shipping, mining,... Brief, everything. ;)
Mostly everything can be made in space at a cheaper cost using materials from there. Opportunities for us to expand, to create jobs, to do business and accumulate wealth can be created there in space, especially when we do not have enough space to expand down here.
Right, on the regions with potential-- space is a region with INFINITE potential!
it COULD have infinite potential, or it could all turn out to be traces, as you said uncertainty
Excerpt:
"The planets and moons bare the scars of a tumultuous history. None of them have gone through their lengthy existence unscathed by the violent impact of asteroids and comets.
Uranus was toppled off its axis by a giant planetoid the size of our own world and its moon Miranda was torn apart and reassembled in the process. Mars is a world that was murdered in its early infancy before it had any chance of completely fulfilling its promise of becoming an abode of life. Most of its crust and atmosphere were flayed and ejected into space by impacts with giant asteroids and comets.
Towards the late nineteenth and throughout the twentieth centuries some one hundred and fifty impact craters have been discovered on our own planetary abode. In the twentieth century two impacts occurred in Eastern Russia. On June 30th, 1908, Moscow escaped destruction by three hours and four thousand kilometres—when an object some 70 meters in diameter impacted the Siberian region of Tunguska with the explosive yield of 1000 Hiroshima bombs. On February 12th, 1947, another Russian city had a still narrower escape, when the second great meteorite of the last century detonated less than four hundred kilometres from Vladivostok in a rain of rock and iron. On August 10th, 1972 the Earth survived a near direct hit and escaped with a mere flesh wound when a meteorite zoomed over the state of Wyoming and grazed the upper atmosphere and bounced back into space before thousands of eyewitnesses. Its blazing trail was even captured on film.
In the early 1980s evidence slowly accumulated that sixty-five million years ago the reign of the dinosaurs ended with a huge bang and ensuing fire storm. Before that violent mass extinctions occurred like clockwork throughout the evolutionary history of life on Earth.
The Moon, a world of on our very doorstep, provides a clear warning for all to see that our world is living on borrowed time. In the chronicle of Gervase an eyewitness account was given of a massive impact on the eastern limb of the Moon that occurred on June 25th, 1178. Evidence is also coming to light that June, despite our fondness for this month because of weddings and the promise of summer holidays to come, holds potential dangers for humanity. The Taurid beta meteor shower is one we must study in detail. It is the progenitor of both the Tunguska fireball and the object that created the blast recorded by Gervase, and lurking in its wake are more potential disasters to come.
In the late 20th century archaeological evidence has come to light that many late Bronze Age civilizations may have met their demise in a rain of fire from the sky. Back in July, 1994 during the week of the 25th anniversary marking man's first steps on the Moon the heavens provided a massive fireworks display of their own to mark the occasion. The planet Jupiter sustained twenty individual impacts from the fragments left over from the disintegration of the comet Shoemaker–Levy 9. Any one of these impacts would have been sufficient in themselves to wipe life off the face of our globe in a real Extinction Level Event (E.L.E).
Yet despite all this accumulated evidence we continue to go about our humdrum worldly concerns, abandoning any attention to the heavens and the dangers that lurk in the local celestial neighbourhood. We face the celestial equivalent of a 9/11. Humanity can no longer ignore the objective reality that its long term existence is imperilled. We either become a spacefaring civilization or face the fate of the dinosaurs."
Talking of money, $ 12 million is spent per hour in Iraq by the US government while the NASA takes less then 1% of the US budget.
yea, we talked about that before :P
To what extent do we depend on the internet? How many businesses will shrink without it? What would be the state of our fields and farms were there no satellites to predict weather changes? What would have happened to the ozone hole? The Sun will boil our oceans in 50 million years. Where then do we go?
WE would been gone to God's mercy long time before that :D
Exploring space helps us to know about planets, understand their functioning, identify the factors that affect them. Our Earth is a planet too, isn't it?
External factors can affect us all here. What happens there in space can influence what happens here on ground. Space is not OUTSIDE, WE are inside.
Space exploration is not spending money on what is not a part of us, WE are a part of the universe.
Exploring space may cost money. But NOT exploring space is much, much more expensive.
No, I still stick to what I had said earlier. :P
Brains are more important than resources. Investing twice, thrice, a thousand times, a billion times into a failing project does not make it a successful one.
i repeat, i am confused
The world has about a 60 trillion/year economy. We do not lack money. What we lack are proper planning, fruitful efforts, productive use of this money. Equal distribution, better thinking and responsible citizens-- these are the real ingredients for a more peaceful and better world.
Use cement, wood, steel, glass, thatches, leaves, or whatever you want, if you don't have land, you would better throw all your materials in the ocean. :P
If you don't have the essential ingredients, you are just throwing your money away.
equal distribution and better education, i still believe that these are the two things we need for solving the present problems, space exploration, no matter how fruitful it is, will not be of much value if we end up with the half the world falling to famine and the other half declaring war on underdeveloped countries tryna establish nuclear forces
Can we prevent Global Warming without exploring space?? I've already discussed about the other problems above.
Even a slight knowledge about what is bigger and more powerful than us can help us bring great changes to OUR lives, OUR problems. We all know Nature's Law: Survival of the Fittest. The race which explores, opens new doors, expands, colonizes, dares the difficult and softens the hard is the race that survives. I have not invented it, history is witness. Since the beginning of time, the weaker ones have been conquered or destroyed by the stronger ones. Civilizations that have learnt to survive on Earth are those whose existence have been carried forward to the future. We are exploring because we are learning to survive in space.
Leave alone all the reasons. Our own human nature pushes us to explore, as Master said. (By the way, where is he lost? :P)
he comes and goes, doesnt settle down too often lol
Life is worth living till life is worth discovering. Today humanity has the potential to seek answers to questions that before were unimaginable.
We wonder, look out for the undiscovered and step in, crossing all frontiers.
We explore beyond the Earth for the same reason that Mount Everest was climbed:
"Because it is there."
gota admit you're pretty damn convincing :)
:)
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Am sorry, you reply almost instantaneously... And I.... ::)
Wasn't home for some time. Just came back. ;)
WEll not remove, just don't add as much as there already is is what i meant lol. I still think its a lot of money, but since its already bin started, then we myte as well see them finish off what they started instead of just leaving it half way unfinished
Yup, space exploration has already been started, it's stupid to end it now... Especially when a "lot of money" has been invested in! ;)
Ya, money is the main incentive to increase labour productivity. But labour is not the only resource.
It's sense to be always thinking about the future, even though YOU yourself may not be there. Like it was sense when our forefathers planted trees and watered them regularly for us to be able to reap the fruits now. I know we live in the present, but we shouldn't forget either that the future for us is what will be the present for others.
i really cant see us or our grandchildren living in a spaceship :D
My grandfather's grand grandfather as well couldn't see Man walking on the Moon! :D :P
it COULD have infinite potential, or it could all turn out to be traces, as you said uncertainty
Okay, I said uncertainty for the future... Still with "It COULD"?
It already DID... Didn't it?
And if it DID in the past, probability that it DOES in the future, logically, should be higher.
Man has till now not been able to even estimate space's dimension. How can you underestimate space? ;)
Okay, let it be, the confusion... Doesn't matter. :)
equal distribution and better education, i still believe that these are the two things we need for solving the present problems, space exploration, no matter how fruitful it is, will not be of much value if we end up with the half the world falling to famine and the other half declaring war on underdeveloped countries tryna establish nuclear forces
Yes, I didn't deny either... BUT the problem is not money, it's EQUAL DISTRIBUTION, which, in turn, depends on BETTER EDUCATION. The world has money, it just doesn't use this money as it should be!
Famine, wars and space... You don't stop medication for cholera if you have got diarrhea, do you?
gota admit you're pretty damn convincing :)
Thank You :)
Debating is more concerned with the WAY you fight your cause, rather than the cause you're fighting.
I'm gonna admit too...
Actually, I had wanted to be debating against space exploration... but when I read everybody's previous posts, I realised that the arguments were not balanced... Why not go for it then? ;)
You're a good partner to debate with. Thank you for being there. :) For not abandoning. ;)
You still got few points yet, keep to the same side. ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If only there were more participants, it would have been a more active debate.
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Am sorry, you reply almost instantaneously... And I.... ::)
Wasn't home for some time. Just came back. ;)
yea i thought i already said me got no life :D
It's sense to be always thinking about the future, even though YOU yourself may not be there. Like it was sense when our forefathers planted trees and watered them regularly for us to be able to reap the fruits now. I know we live in the present, but we shouldn't forget either that the future for us is what will be the present for others.
and yet, they had no problems killing those lovely dinosaurs and mamoths :P
My grandfather's grand grandfather as well couldn't see Man walking on the Moon! :D :P
yea fine fair enuf
Okay, let it be, the confusion... Doesn't matter. :)
yea you same to get me confused too often :D
Yes, I didn't deny either... BUT the problem is not money, it's EQUAL DISTRIBUTION, which, in turn, depends on BETTER EDUCATION. The world has money, it just doesn't use this money as it should be!
Famine, wars and space... You don't stop medication for cholera if you have got diarrhea, do you?
Only if cholera is coming on the long term, i think ??? its not spending money on exploration that i was against, its the excessive attention that it was given that left more endangering (at the present) problems virtually ignored (ea i know theres help but its not anywhere near enough).
Thank You :)
Debating is more concerned with the WAY you fight your cause, rather than the cause you're fighting.
I'm gonna admit too...
Actually, I had wanted to be debating against space exploration... but when I read everybody's previous posts, I realised that the arguments were not balanced... Why not go for it then? ;)
You're a good partner to debate with. Thank you for being there. :) For not abandoning. ;)
You still got few points yet, keep to the same side. ;)
so wait, you saying you coulda actually thrown in the same fyte from both sides? waaaw!
thank you :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If only there were more participants, it would have been a more active debate.
too bad we dont have so much big-mouthed peeps ;D
(p.s. how do you do the seperate quotes thingie?)
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Space exploration should definitely continue without any question.
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Space exploration should definitely continue without any question.
With all that money they spend on space exploration, is it really a good idea?
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@Omer
and yet, they had no problems killing those lovely dinosaurs and mamoths
NO PROBLEMS????
You wanna start another debate? ;) :P :P :P
its the excessive attention that it was given that left more endangering (at the present) problems virtually ignored (ea i know theres help but its not anywhere near enough).
That's politics, rightwing politics. Politics existing IN this world, what does space come here for?
so wait, you saying you coulda actually thrown in the same fyte from both sides? waaaw!
Why only me?? ANYONE can do it, YOU can do it too!
By the way, you could have also talked about accidents, space pollution.... and all... ::)
P.S. 2nd row, 3rd icon from the right... Click on the icon for conversation, which is below "Change colour". Ya, do select what you wanna quote.
@Master786
I know you are one of the admins.... but still, am gonna tell you something silly:
FEEL AT HOME.... :D :D
@Lone$tar
LOL
There is space for questions in space.... :D
We're just trying to fill space with answers... :D
@Stacey
WELCOME!!!! ;D ;D ;D
At last!
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@Omer
NO PROBLEMS????
You wanna start another debate? ;) :P :P :P
*Runs for wikipedia :P *
yea maybe we should make some sort of list of debating topics and tackle them once per week?
That's politics, rightwing politics. Politics existing IN this world, what does space come here for?
*looks up left wing and right wing*
Why only me?? ANYONE can do it, YOU can do it too!
By the way, you could have also talked about accidents, space pollution.... and all... ::)
well i did debate on both sides of coed schools and death sentences (and i won in three of the four occasions 8) ) but i never actually thought that space exploration is a "debatable" subject, looks more like a right-or-wrong to me
P.S. 2nd row, 3rd icon from the right... Click on the icon for conversation, which is below "Change colour". Ya, do select what you wanna quote.[/quote]
yay thanks it worked :)
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:D You are SLOWWWW :P :P :P
*Runs for wikipedia Tongue *
You run, I will FLY! ;D :D
yea maybe we should make some sort of list of debating topics and tackle them once per week?
Ya, sure. That's a nice idea... But don't mind my late replies please... Actually, my uncle's getting married.... Just busy with all the preparations...
*looks up left wing and right wing*
LOL :D
well i did debate on both sides of coed schools and death sentences (and i won in three of the four occasions Cool ) but i never actually thought that space exploration is a "debatable" subject, looks more like a right-or-wrong to me
Hahaha, I've been debating since long too... I neva lost... ;) Till now.... Hehehe, maybe in the future....
Everything in life has a bright and dark side-- everything not personal is debatable...LOL
yay thanks it worked
Welcome :)
Yup, I got a demonstration... ;D
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With all that money they spend on space exploration, is it really a good idea?
Do you know that a few days ago, water was discovered on the moon?
I'm thinking of establishing a real estate company for building houses, structures, blocks and other buildings at the moon. ;D
We can even sell lands of moon to people, whereas people thinks that, they are building a safe future for their kids (as earth becomes more polluted and congested in 2020)! Don't say that people will not buy them : Some people travel to space, paying hefty sums of money, whereas it brings no real financial benifit to them. If the condition of earth, somewhat, becomes more polluted, people may consider it in the long run.
C'mon, think business!!! ;D
Space provides us humans with many future business opportunities like this one. At present, they may seem to be far fetched. None of you may agree with me. But in near future, it might present as a real opportunity for me and you.
NB This is just my opinion and thinking. You may not agree to me. Please try to argue softly, if you do not do so.
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:D You are SLOWWWW :P :P :P
You run, I will FLY! ;D :D
actually am usually quick but i keep getting called by my mom today >:( no worries ama be back to my usual speed in half an hour or so lol
Ya, sure. That's a nice idea... But don't mind my late replies please... Actually, my uncle's getting married.... Just busy with all the preparations...
no worries, i aint gonna be posting so often myself by the end of this month
LOL :D
Hahaha, I've been debating since long too... I neva lost... ;) Till now.... Hehehe, maybe in the future...
.
then now i have a goal in life :P
Everything in life has a bright and dark side-- everything not personal is debatable...LOL
Welcome :)
Yup, I got a demonstration... ;D
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well ...for who want to explore space ,why not .
and for those who don't want ,then stay here .
imagine there will be mass relays some day :P
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Relay (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Relay)
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@Lone$tar
Do you know that a few days ago, water was discovered on the moon?
AND on the moons of Jupiter and Mars.... :)
I'm thinking of establishing a real estate company for building houses, structures, blocks and other buildings at the moon. Grin
We can even sell lands of moon to people, whereas people thinks that, they are building a safe future for their kids (as earth becomes more polluted and congested in 2020)! Don't say that people will not buy them : Some people travel to space, paying hefty sums of money, whereas it brings no real financial benifit to them. If the condition of earth, somewhat, becomes more polluted, people may consider it in the long run.
C'mon, think business!!! Grin
Sell our ONE and ONLY Moon?
Hydrogen also is a part of space, why not sell it too? And the Sun?
*Buy One Get One Free ;D :P"
I am among those who are against selling 'public property'.
How would it be were all public hospitals sold? If every road was privatized? Where would the public go?
Business is good, but not with anything.
The Moon is a UNIVERSAL property, not personal. If we keep selling, we'll soon come to a situation where EVERYTHING IS FOR HUMANS, AND NOTHING FOR HUMANITY.
Sure, we can use the resources... but I think the World Government is in a better position to take decisions regarding this. Or the NASA, but not anyone.
I had read in one of the threads here that parts of the Moon have already been sold to screen stars, something I am against, strictly against.
I only hope there are enough people in this world who will do the possible to save our Moon from the savage human grip.
P.S. *Blue, the colour of Peace ;)*.
It's a debate, the language we would use should be appropriate for making arguments. Yea, none of us would be pointing arrows at you or using abusive language. The doors are closed to close-minded people. Just do not carry discussions outside the threads. Leave all grudges here itself.
On the contrary, we're grateful that you joined here. More people, more fun. ;) Feel free to express yourself.
I hope I have been "soft".
@Omer
then now i have a goal in life :P
Very funny :P
I'll wait for the day. ;) ;D
It's good to win, but it's not bad to lose.
@Vakarian
well ...for who want to explore space ,why not .
and for those who don't want ,then stay here .
Hehehe, abrupt and true! Agreed. :)
imagine there will be mass relays some day :P
Sports? Wouldn't it be better to use space for SURVIVAL first? :P
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lol ,its not about sports ...
its a relay between two arms of galaxy ,making travelling of thousands of light years possible in few days ..
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lol ,its not about sports ...
its a relay between two arms of galaxy ,making travelling of thousands of light years possible in few days ..
OK, saves time. ;D :)
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OK, saves time. ;D :)
But requires a dam lot of energy. To go the speed of light you need an infinite amount of energy. Not going to happen.
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But requires a dam lot of energy. To go the speed of light you need an infinite amount of energy. Not going to happen.
Why not? Space is infinite, energy too is, as far as I know. ;)
Maybe it will not happen, maybe we will die before. But surely, we can give it a try.
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@Lone$tar
AND on the moons of Jupiter and Mars.... :)
Sell our ONE and ONLY Moon?
Hydrogen also is a part of space, why not sell it too? And the Sun?
*Buy One Get One Free ;D :P"
I am among those who are against selling 'public property'.
How would it be were all public hospitals sold? If every road was privatized? Where would the public go?
Business is good, but not with anything.
The Moon is a UNIVERSAL property, not personal. If we keep selling, we'll soon come to a situation where EVERYTHING IS FOR HUMANS, AND NOTHING FOR HUMANITY.
Sure, we can use the resources... but I think the World Government is in a better position to take decisions regarding this. Or the NASA, but not anyone.
I had read in one of the threads here that parts of the Moon have already been sold to screen stars, something I am against, strictly against.
I only hope there are enough people in this world who will do the possible to save our Moon from the savage human grip.
P.S. *Blue, the colour of Peace ;)*.
It's a debate, the language we would use should be appropriate for making arguments. Yea, none of us would be pointing arrows at you or using abusive language. The doors are closed to close-minded people. Just do not carry discussions outside the threads. Leave all grudges here itself.
On the contrary, we're grateful that you joined here. More people, more fun. ;) Feel free to express yourself.
I hope I have been "soft".
@Omer
Very funny :P
I'll wait for the day. ;) ;D
It's good to win, but it's not bad to lose.
@Vakarian
Hehehe, abrupt and true! Agreed. :)
Sports? Wouldn't it be better to use space for SURVIVAL first? :P
Hydrogen also is a part of space, why not sell it too? And the Sun?
*Buy One Get One Free "
Hydrogen is not salable from space. Firstly, moon does not have hydrogen in its atmosphere. Secondly, hydrogen is not needed for our survival. :P Sun is too dangerous as it is too hot for us. Nobody will want to buy sun! :P I was just talking about our moon, about which we know the most and which is the least farthest from us also, easy for us to explore.
1> In case you haven't noticed, I assumed that human is in such a stage that in 10-20 years of time, they will be able to travel to moon with ease and will be able to live there with ease. I am sure they will be.
Sure, we can use the resources... but I think the World Government is in a better position to take decisions regarding this. Or the NASA, but not anyone
I had read in one of the threads here that parts of the Moon have already been sold to screen stars, something I am against, strictly against..
You misunderstood me! Suppose that NASA today is the explorer of the moon. There are also many others. The EU set up a space exploration agency to prevent the monopoly of the USA in this field. Even Bangladesh has started a project which involves building a rocket and researching space and moon by 2015. The whole 'space' is not 'cornered' entirely by NASA or any other agency. Your belief is mistaken. You mentioned that they are selling lands to us. If it becomes easy to lead life in moon, they will sell these land in more quantities to us, in order to cover their huge cost of space exploration. As they are selling land to us, we will be able to claim those land once moon becomes completely livable.
What I am talking about is that Land on the moon will probably be a very good investment if a serious problem occurs on earth (provided that condition 1 has been met). We always think for the short term. Think - if the effects of greenhouse warming occurs to the extent that even developed countries are flooded, or world war III occurs, people will look for alternative means of living. Suddenly, we can sell the land which we bought beforehand, at much higher prices to the rich citizens at that time who will be able to afford and go to moon and start a new life afresh, far from the calamities of the earth.
Business is good, but not with anything.
It is good as long as we make profit and offers good return into the future - Thats what I understand! You may have a different opinion.
EVERYTHING IS FOR HUMANS, AND NOTHING FOR HUMANITY.
We humans as being the best creature has been entitled to everything which is in the universe. It is our right to go and explore the moon!!! You must understand this!
I only hope there are enough people in this world who will do the possible to save our Moon from the savage human grip.
I'm assuming that you are 'against' this debate (ie do not want space exploration)
NB. These are my opinion only. You may have different opinions.
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@Lone$tar
Hydrogen is not salable from space. Firstly, moon does not have hydrogen in its atmosphere. Secondly, hydrogen is not needed for our survival. Tongue Sun is too dangerous as it is too hot for us. Nobody will want to buy sun! Tongue I was just talking about our moon, about which we know the most and which is the least farthest from us also, easy for us to explore.
Why not? Hydrogen is a molecule of water. Hydrogen is used extensively here. What you call "dangerous" is our PRIME source of life!
Anyway, those were just rhetorical questions. ;)
You misunderstood me! Suppose that NASA today is the explorer of the moon. There are also many others. The EU set up a space exploration agency to prevent the monopoly of the USA in this field. Even Bangladesh has started a project which involves building a rocket and researching space and moon by 2015. The whole 'space' is not 'cornered' entirely by NASA or any other agency. Your belief is mistaken.
Monopolies are good when checked by law.I know very well that the NASA is not the only centre exploring space. It was just an example; I cited the pioneer. ;)
IF space stations join together to pool their resources, share their skills, knowledge and expertise (like the International Space Station, for example) to bring to moderate use what they can find in space to ensure our survival here on Earth, THEN I find nothing wrong.
BUT IF each country on its own tries to "make business" out of space material, then I find everything wrong.
Exploring space is a HUGE, MASSIVE investment. Exploiting space is a CATASTROPHIC one. It is highly improbable for one country, let alone one entrepreneur, to be self sufficient in exploiting spacial resources. Where then does "making business" come in? And even if it does, where is the idea of competition and value for money??
You mentioned that they are selling lands to us. If it becomes easy to lead life in moon, they will sell these land in more quantities to us, in order to cover their huge cost of space exploration. As they are selling land to us, we will be able to claim those land once moon becomes completely livable.
Of course, business minded people WILL DEFINITELY do everything to cover their huge cost.
But what makes you think that they will sell these lands in greater quantities to us? The Moon is UNIQUE, it is SCARCE; living there is a CHALLENGE; it is OUTSIDE this world; more than a planet; it is a SATELLITE; a place UNAFFECTED by our daily humdrum activities; a DREAM for some; an ESCAPE from our shrinking world; it will soon become a NECESSITY if our Earthly problems are not solved.
To increase the supply of plots on the Moon is sheer craziness! (By the way, CAN moon land be increased?)
On the contrary, businessmen will shoot up prices, making the 'Moon Business' a demand v/s supply battle where the ravages of prices will be similar to those of missiles.
What I am talking about is that Land on the moon will probably be a very good investment if a serious problem occurs on earth (provided that condition 1 has been met).
Your condition 1 says:
In case you haven't noticed, I assumed that human is in such a stage that in 10-20 years of time, they will be able to travel to moon with ease and will be able to live there with ease. I am sure they will be.
I am very sure that the Moon will not be an easily habitable place after 100-200 years of time.
We always think for the short term. Think - if the effects of greenhouse warming occurs to the extent that even developed countries are flooded, or world war III occurs, people will look for alternative means of living. Suddenly, we can sell the land which we bought beforehand, at much higher prices to the rich citizens at that time who will be able to afford and go to moon and start a new life afresh, far from the calamities of the earth.
No, we always mistake our thinking-- we believe that we always think about the long term while, darn, we have no notion of the time continuity at all!
Our short-sighted eyes can barely glance at what lies far beyond the time period that we define as "long term".
The Greenhouse Effect, Global Warming, Wars-- where do all these problems spring from? If today our planet is on the verge of destruction, because of WHAT is it? If plants and animals are in danger, WHY are they? If life is going towards extinction, WHAT is the cause for it?
In one word, because of MAN.
Man is the root of all problems, and you think planting this root on the Moon will help avoid problems? Already the Moon independently does not support any form of life, unlike our old Earth. The Moon does not inhabit plants and animals-- our food sources. It has no exposure to sunlight for sufficiently long, regular periods of time. And you think Man, the race which has disturbed Earth's ecological system, will be able to live in harmony with the Moon's nature? Taking a matchstick from a firecrackers' packet to keep it in a dynamite box helps to avoid a fire?
Halt there! "To the rich citizens of that time"? What about the poor people?? Agree, they don't have money. But don't they have lives? Where will these people go? I guess, homes on the Moon. :P Taking into account current situations, one third of the world's population will make homes on the Moon for the two thirds who do not have enough to eat? 6 billion people will fit on a satellite four times smaller than our Earth? This planning has a big problem.
We need to use spacial resources to prevent these calamities-- for the SURVIVAL of mankind-- not to "make business". We need to use them to solve our problems HERE, not to bring our problems THERE.
It is good as long as we make profit and offers good return into the future - Thats what I understand! You may have a different opinion.
Yes, I have a different opinion. I don't understand where "social responsibility" is lost. Business is not good as long it is more destructive for the majority. In business language, as long as external costs are higher than private benefits.
We humans as being the best creature has been entitled to everything which is in the universe.
We humans, "the best creatures", are still and will continue to be dependent on the other creatures for our own survival. We humans have not created the Universe and all that it contains. We humans are not entitled the right to carry our universal ignorance into space and mess up there like we have messed up here on Earth (especially when we cannot make up for it).
It is our right to go and explore the moon!!! You must understand this!
The Moon is not a chocolate bar on a supermarket shelf whose fate has been thrown to thousands of famished hands. The Moon is OUR ONLY natural heritage. It is one of the unmatchable beauties belonging to our Earth, the property of OUR WHOLE PLANET and all the people who inhabit this planet COLLECTIVELY. How many of us would want to find a concrete jungle on the Moon while gazing at the starry sky at night? It is NOT our right to go and destroy the Moon!!! You must not forget this!
I'm assuming that you are 'against' this debate (ie do not want space exploration)
You've read the previous posts?
There is a whole universe's difference between space exploration and space exploitation.
I am not against moderate exploitation. I am against over-exploitation.
N.B. There is no debate if there is no contradicting opinion. ;)
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Yes, we do have poor people in the world. I do feel sorry for them.
How are we going to solve the problems here? We have charities and so on... but is that enough?
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Yes, we do have poor people in the world. I do feel sorry for them.
How are we going to solve the problems here? We have charities and so on... but is that enough?
Read the previous posts... That should be enough. ;D
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Read the previous posts... That should be enough. ;D
Äääh. They're too long, can't be bothered to read :P
I guess man does have the power to change, so that they won't make mistakes or cause problems. If we get the right people to organize everything for life on another planet, it should be ok.
The moon is not a realistic place to habit. Only if enough buildings were built to contain air that we can breathe, then maybe.
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Äääh. They're too long, can't be bothered to read :P
I guess man does have the power to change, so that they won't make mistakes or cause problems. If we get the right people to organize everything for life on another planet, it should be ok.
The moon is not a realistic place to habit. Only if enough buildings were built to contain air that we can breathe, then maybe.
I would prefer to repeat: Read again. ;)
Than to rewrite everything... THAT is long. :P :)
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@~Alpha: e-debating with you is more fun and more interesting than I thought it would be!!! ;D ;D
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@~Alpha: e-debating with you is more fun and more interesting than I thought it would be!!! ;D ;D
Thank you for the compliment. :)
It is fun and interesting as long as I have members who participate actively, like you, Master (who vanished, LOL) & Omer! ;)
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Thank you for the compliment. :)
It is fun and interesting as long as I have members who participate actively, like you, Master (who vanished, LOL) & Omer! ;)
lol thanks, and master, well thats how hes always been, always away but never gone :D
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I will harfly be here for a month too
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LOL, Omer...
That's how I will be too as soon as school starts! ;D
Astar, a month...? After you will start working? ;)
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LOL, Omer...
That's how I will be too as soon as school starts! ;D
Astar, a month...? After you will start working? ;)
you're on vacation too?! niceee :D
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i think we need to know our own planet before going on to space, what about the sea, oceans and stuff, people are finding sea creatures that have been thought to be extinct, sometimes we have to walk before we run.
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i think we need to know our own planet before going on to space, what about the sea, oceans and stuff, people are finding sea creatures that have been thought to be extinct, sometimes we have to walk before we run.
And sometimes you need to go out to find what's lacking inside. :)