IGCSE/GCSE/O & A Level/IB/University Student Forum
Teachers and Students => Debates => Topic started by: minicooper on August 07, 2011, 12:18:37 pm
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I noticed that there was some hate-talk in this forum against Israel, and I think the lies should be exposed.
Israel is not an apartheid state. Everyone has equal rights under the Israeli constitution.
The Israeli army allows only minimum collateral damage during wars.
Israel endured eight years of rocket fire from Gaza before the Gaza-Israeli war was started.
Hamas uses human shields so that Israel is blamed for hitting civilians, or so that they don't hit. They store ammunition in houses. They shoot rockets from ambulances and schools. In the war, they would grab children and drag them across the road when they cross, so that the Israelis don't shoot.
When the Gaza flotilla disobeyed Israel's orders (although they were in Israel's waters), six Israeli soldiers were dumped on board armed with paintball guns. The 'peace' activists on board attacked them with iron bars and knives and threw one of them overboard.
One-point-three million Israeli Arab citizens live safely in Israel. With true peace, Jews should be able to safely live in Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia, Libya, Yemen, and the proposed Palestinian state
No Palestinian Arab state ever existed prior to the one currently being proposed by the United States, Israel, and other nations. Israel never 'stole' anyones land.
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I noticed that there was some hate-talk in this forum against Israel, and I think the lies should be exposed.
Israel is not an apartheid state. Everyone has equal rights under the Israeli constitution.
The Israeli army allows only minimum collateral damage during wars.
Israel endured eight years of rocket fire from Gaza before the Gaza-Israeli war was started.
Hamas uses human shields so that Israel is blamed for hitting civilians, or so that they don't hit. They store ammunition in houses. They shoot rockets from ambulances and schools. In the war, they would grab children and drag them across the road when they cross, so that the Israelis don't shoot.
When the Gaza flotilla disobeyed Israel's orders (although they were in Israel's waters), six Israeli soldiers were dumped on board armed with paintball guns. The 'peace' activists on board attacked them with iron bars and knives and threw one of them overboard.
One-point-three million Israeli Arab citizens live safely in Israel. With true peace, Jews should be able to safely live in Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia, Libya, Yemen, and the proposed Palestinian state
No Palestinian Arab state ever existed prior to the one currently being proposed by the United States, Israel, and other nations. Israel never 'stole' anyones land.
Israel is not an apartheid state. Everyone has equal rights under the Israeli constitution.
The Israeli army allows only minimum collateral damage during wars.
Israel endured eight years of rocket fire from Gaza before the Gaza-Israeli war was started.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=israeli+human+rights&aq=f
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=israeli+terrorism&aq=f
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vettorio+arrigoni+murder&aq=f
Hamas uses human shields so that Israel is blamed for hitting civilians, or so that they don't hit. They store ammunition in houses. They shoot rockets from ambulances and schools. In the war, they would grab children and drag them across the road when they cross, so that the Israelis don't shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=israel+shooting+children&aq=f
When the Gaza flotilla disobeyed Israel's orders (although they were in Israel's waters), six Israeli soldiers were dumped on board armed with paintball guns. The 'peace' activists on board attacked them with iron bars and knives and threw one of them overboard.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=israel+flotilla+killed&aq=f
One-point-three million Israeli Arab citizens live safely in Israel. With true peace, Jews should be able to safely live in Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia, Libya, Yemen, and the proposed Palestinian state
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=racism+in+israel&aq=f
No Palestinian Arab state ever existed prior to the one currently being proposed by the United States, Israel, and other nations. Israel never 'stole' anyones land.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=israel+land+grabbing&aq=f
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Are you for or against?
Under 'terrorism' found many videos about the Fogel family murdered at the hands of Palestinians.
You can't expect every statement or video on YouTube to be true, by the way.
What's the point of posting YouTube links?
I've been to Israel, there is NO racism!
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I was about to quote what iluvme wrote, but she deleted her post.
Israel never 'stole' anyones land.
are you sure?
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You can't expect every statement or video on YouTube to be true, by the way.
A debate cannot be based on brushing off facts/evidences presented. If you can prove the hundreds of videos I presented as false/fake, go ahead and do so. ;)
Under 'terrorism' found many videos about the Fogel family murdered at the hands of Palestinians.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=terrorism&suggested_categories=25&page=1
I suggest you have a look at the results again.
Are you for or against?
Self evident. ;D
What's the point of posting YouTube links?
Debating? What else?
I've been to Israel, there is NO racism!
So, you mean the hundreds of videos in here (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=racism+in+israel&aq=f) are all fake? You have been to every corner of Israel and have scanned every part of it?
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A debate cannot be based on brushing off facts/evidences presented. If you can prove the hundreds of videos I presented as false/fake, go ahead and do so. ;)
I don't think I have to prove anything to you. A YouTube video is not evidence. I cannot prove they are false, you cannot prove they are true. I say they are probably made by people who hate Israel.
I have not been to every nook and cranny in Israel. There is no apartheid law in Israel. The Jews do not, as a rule, hate the Arabs. There is no seperation of Israeli citizens. They all have equal rights.
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I don't think I have to prove anything to you. A YouTube video is not evidence. I cannot prove they are false, you cannot prove they are true. I say they are probably made by people who hate Israel.
Again, brushing off facts and evidences by playing the "hate" card. Debating must be done with an open mind. Go ahead and watch some of the videos I presented, then prove that they are made by people simply "hating" israel.
I have not been to every nook and cranny in Israel. There is no apartheid law in Israel. The Jews do not, as a rule, hate the Arabs. There is no seperation of Israeli citizens. They all have equal rights.
The above is an assertive statement without any facts/evidences presented. Your debating stance seems very poor and short-of conclusive/solid evidences/facts, I must say. ;)
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Is America an apartheid state? Is South Africa an apartheid state? Do you have to go to every nook and cranny in those countries in order to establish an answer?
Posting links to YouTube videos isn't debating either.
But if that's the way you roll:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=palestinian+terrorism&aq=0 (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=palestinian+terrorism&aq=0)
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hamas&aq=0 (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hamas&aq=0)
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hamas+civilians&aq=f (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hamas+civilians&aq=f)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkcOMsxMhBI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkcOMsxMhBI&feature=related)
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Is America an apartheid state? Is South Africa an apartheid state? Do you have to go to every nook and cranny in those countries in order to establish an answer?
If that was meant as an analogy, you're ignoring not one or two video evidences, but hundreds and thousands of videos about Israeli terrorism I linked.
Anyway, that is not the subject of this debate. This debate is about Israel, not America or South Africa.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=palestinian+terrorism&aq=0
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hamas&aq=0
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hamas+civilians&aq=f
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkcOMsxMhBI&feature=related
Ah, Hamas, the Palestinian resistance. You want Israeli chicken-head troops to kill more children and innocents without any resistance at all?
Posting links to YouTube videos isn't debating either.
Those links were meant to prove a point, which you'd have understood by now if you'd applied an open mind. ;)
Anyway, you ignored those videos and did nothing to prove your point other than some assertions here and there.
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Great one, SE. ;D
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The point about America and South Africa is that it is easy to see whether a country is racist/apartheid or not. And Israel is obviously not. There is no llaw-enforced segregation of people or discrimination.
Hamas is not a defense force. It is a terrorist organisation.
There are thousands of clips on that topic too, if you were interested.
Anyway, I watched a few of those videos you linked to, and it was highly unconvincing. People talking. No video footage of anything but kids dropping stones over a wall into a yard. If that's terrorism... I wonder if all the thousands of videos are like that?
Israeli chicken-head troops
You keep telling me I ought to have an open mind. You assume that you do?
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The point about America and South Africa is that it is easy to see whether a country is racist/apartheid or not. And Israel is obviously not. There is no llaw-enforced segregation of people or discrimination.
Another assertion without any evidence, with phrases like "obviously not". Again, I've already presented many videos under "racism in israel", many of which are based on extensive polls and surveys, which invalidates your above assertion.
Hamas is not a defense force. It is a terrorist organisation.
For the 4rd time, assertions are not a good debate tactic and holds no value whatsoever.
You keep telling me I ought to have an open mind. You assume that you do?
lol, don't cry if you don't understand this very simple analogy. Ever thought why I called them chicken head? They kill innocent children, with as much bravado as chickens. ;)
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Israel not an apartheid state - why is it then that israeli Arab children have half the funding of Jewish children? Israel has to learn humility else one day the death toll will start to even out.
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based on extensive polls and surveys
Assertion.
They are not. Of those I watched, they were based on verbal accounts. The kind of thing you would expect if there were no evidence.
They kill innocent children
Assertion.
israeli Arab children have half the funding of Jewish children
Assertion
I've presented videos (thousands, please note) about hamas's terrorism, about hamas using children as human shields. Did that escape your notice?
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I have a question minicooper. =]
Explain me the meaning of killing please ?
Israeli soldiers killed and hamas people killed. Why is Hamas's act of killing taken as terrorism and not Israel?
If I'm going to use the word 'Terrorism' for every act of killing, then I assume Israel would win the TOP 1 of being the country of terrorism. =]
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Please give an APPLAUSE to the BRAVE ISRAELI SOLDIERS who point their weapon to the face of a CHILDREN and who kill CHILDREN and women.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_h7YPx99xZM/TfeE0Zh9_DI/AAAAAAAAAJ4/YN41yAj9_UI/s1600/400_0___10000000_0_0_0_0_0_israeli_soldier_points_his_gun_at_a_palestinian_child_in_hebron_city__file_2007.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-y4j2wVa4bD4/TePgNnIg6uI/AAAAAAAAAE8/VLLbKzSYOZs/s1600/1_19908.jpg)
(http://syiarislam.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/shootingchildren.jpg?w=445&h=317)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lzUf18b21N4/SaLPpuRbTtI/AAAAAAAAAbM/vW9_RM3KUd4/S1600-R/gazabanner_latest.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_haUxZZoiOtI/SzHT16Z8NUI/AAAAAAAABPg/zsjg6JJBwEY/s400/Israeli+soldiers+aiming+gun+at+mother+and+child.jpg)
(http://syiarislam.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/israelkillingchildren.jpg?w=348&h=512)
(http://www.kawther.info/filius_iman.JPG)
(http://palestinechronicle.com/uploads/1245268051human_shield_boy_soldiers.jpg)
(http://img1.loadtr.com/b-297832-filistinli_%C3%A7ocuklar.jpg)
(http://www.uruknet.info/pic.php?f=2palestinian_boy_arrest_israel.jpg)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp9i2kjRf91r027f9o1_500.jpg)
How about some FACTS ?
The United Nations office for the High Commissioner for Human Rights said in a report that 1,335 Palestinian children were shot dead as a result of Israeli air and ground attacks or indiscriminate gun fire by Israeli soldiers.
“The international community should offer protection for Palestinian children so that they can have a better social and educational environment,” said Amjad Shawa, Coordinator of Palestinian NGO Network.
According to UNICEF, Israeli policies have put the lives of more than 1.9 million Palestinian children in danger.
They also face the constant threat of death, injury, displacement, detention, psychological distress and low educational attainment.
UN to investigate night arrests, beatings, detention and torture of children by Israel
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Assertion.
They are not. Of those I watched, they were based on verbal accounts. The kind of thing you would expect if there were no evidence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGSJPIm0bs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EL3lhRBfAg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xi_ZMWIjxU
^ These 3 official videos were on the first page itself for "racism in Israel",dear. I think you need to use your eyes.
Assertion.
You've turned a blind eye to the thousands of youtube videos I presented to you with Israel killing children. I've presented valid evidences which does not make it an assertion. Plus, Shoshou..Mony posted pictures of Israeli terrorism against children above.
I think you should look up the meaning of assertion on a dictionary dear. ;)
I've presented videos (thousands, please note) about hamas's terrorism, about hamas using children as human shields. Did that escape your notice?
Have a look at those search result's 3 and above pages. I'm quoting some results
Some of the results for "palestinian terrorism" Page 3
An American Mocking a Muslim palestinian flag burning. LULULULU HILARIOUS!
Violence, Anathema (The Israeli Terrorism against the palestinian children) by Ra
Israel Settlers Torch Palestinian Olive Grove, More Terrorism From Jews-Press T
IDF terrorising palestinian women Cowards!
Palestinian Authority kids' war song to terrorist: "I want to carry a ...
look at how is israeli terrorism in palestine deal with children
Israeli soldiers prevent pregnant Palestinian woman from passing through checkpo
LOL, I think we have more cases of Israeli terrorism under "palestinian terrorism". ::)
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the Israeli stockmarket is down 7%. western power is waning. the time is coming when the us will not be able to afford Israel.
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IDF values:
Human Life – "The IDF servicemen and women will act in a judicious and safe manner in all they do, out of recognition of the supreme value of human life. During combat they will endanger themselves and their comrades only to the extent required to carry out their mission."
Human Dignity – "The IDF and its soldiers are obligated to protect human dignity. Every human being is of value regardless of his or her origin, religion, nationality, gender, status or position."
Purity of Arms – "The soldier shall make use of his weaponry and power only for the fulfillment of the mission and solely to the extent required; he will maintain his humanity even in combat. The soldier shall not employ his weaponry and power in order to harm non-combatants or prisoners of war, and shall do all he can to avoid harming their lives, body, honor and property." (Wikipedia)
Hamas Charter:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory). http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm (http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm)
Now you tell me which is the peaceful one?
As for the pictures... yeah, they'e pretty shocking. Are they neccesarily Israelis? The pictures of injured children show no evidence of being hit by Israeli fire. But still very sad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGSJPIm0bs
There's no racism there. In fact, it shows that Arab students are allowed equal opportunities to go to university.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EL3lhRBfAg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xi_ZMWIjxU
More talking. You can't go on the titles of these videos.
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IDF values:
Human Life – "The IDF servicemen and women will act in a judicious and safe manner in all they do, out of recognition of the supreme value of human life. During combat they will endanger themselves and their comrades only to the extent required to carry out their mission."
Human Dignity – "The IDF and its soldiers are obligated to protect human dignity. Every human being is of value regardless of his or her origin, religion, nationality, gender, status or position."
Purity of Arms – "The soldier shall make use of his weaponry and power only for the fulfillment of the mission and solely to the extent required; he will maintain his humanity even in combat. The soldier shall not employ his weaponry and power in order to harm non-combatants or prisoners of war, and shall do all he can to avoid harming their lives, body, honor and property." (Wikipedia)
The pictures which Shoshou Mony posted and the videos which I linked completely invalidates any such charter based on fantasyland. Your case is lost completely.
As for the pictures... yeah, they'e pretty shocking. Are they neccesarily Israelis? The pictures of injured children show no evidence of being hit by Israeli fire. But still very sad.
They're pictures of Israeli soldiers. You for the 5th time chose to ignore evidences on the opposing side. As far as I can see, you're just an Israeli brainwashed slave who is (naturally, for such a person) unwilling to accept any opposing views. ;) Deep inside you, you know that the stance you've chosen is outright wrong after you saw so many contrary evidences, but you'll never admit it because it will hurt your ego.
Get out of your closet sometimes, you'll feel free.
Debating cannot be done with such mindset.
There's no racism there. In fact, it shows that Arab students are allowed equal opportunities to go to university.
Miss Minicooper, please tell me - Can you even read english? If not, please spare us your blind rhetoric.
Video description:
Arab students of Israel's Haifa University have stepped up complaints of discrimination on student body election day.
The minority group says they are under-represented in the college's student union and do not have the same rights as their Jewish peers.
Sherine Tadros reports from Haifa University.
Sherine Tadros reports from Haifa University.
[December 10, 2010]
More talking. You can't go on the titles of these videos.
Another uneducated blind rhetoric without even bothering to look what is inside these videos. I'll spare any argument for now.
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The pictures which Shoshou Mony posted and the videos which I linked completely invalidates any such charter based on fantasyland. Your case is lost completely.
They're pictures of Israeli soldiers. You for the 5th time chose to ignore evidences on the opposing side. As far as I can see, you're just an Israeli brainwashed slave who is (naturally, for such a person) unwilling to accept any opposing views. ;)
LOL leave it.
Here is the BBC link since she doesn't believe the internet. :P
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7814490.stm
@Minicooper, And those pictures, I got them from google by typing 'Palestinian Children' which you should check yourself. The above pictures were just a sample, google and see how killed they are.
I believe you are an Israeli slave also as Borakk said. Unfortunately, you don't just defend Israel for the wrong they do by killing innocents, but you are also being a complete racist against Arabs and Muslims, which proves how narrow minded you are.
Defending the wrong is a great shame. If Hamas people kill Israeli children and woman, then be certain I'd be the FIRST against them. Even Jews do not accept what is happening in Palestine and that's why I'd never go against Jews or an entire race just because of the heartless criminals some of their people practice.
And by the quotes you quoted by the Hamas people, Jews are meant to be the Israeli criminals not just any peaceful Jew.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4sLrPvYVXZ4/TAlrjzud5FI/AAAAAAAAAhQ/bt8xp4TZ1AU/s1600/Jews+against+israel.jpg)
(http://revolutionaryfrontlines.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/capt-palestinian_protest_2an.jpg)
The above pictures explains the fact that you are a total racist by taking the side of the evilness.
The wrong is wrong and the right is right. You need to differentiate between then two and then argue. You should be a lawyer defending the criminals who kill innocents in jails, since this is what you follow.
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blind rhetoric without even bothering to look what is inside these videos
I did look what's inside those videos. Often the title exagerates or misrepresents the content. Maybe you should watch it before you post it.
under-represented in the college's student union
Yes, that is because there are fewer of them at the university. It's not racism, its just how statistics works out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7814490.stm
Yes, children were hurt in the war. ON BOTH SIDES.
It is exactly these symptoms that are also prevalent among the children of Sderot.
The Israeli town close to Gaza has been hit by many of the 10,000 Palestinian rockets fired into southern Israel over the past eight years.
"It splintered his hand and now he can't use it," his father, Tashkent, said. "The bone was completely destroyed from the shoulder down. Only half of his shoulder is still there."
The war was started after eight years of rocket fire from Hamas.
In Gaza:
(The boy's) house was hit in an air strike on a Hamas militant next door
(http://)
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I did look what's inside those videos. Often the title exagerates or misrepresents the content. Maybe you should watch it before you post it.
Yes, that is because there are fewer of them at the university. It's not racism, its just how statistics works out.
Do you know the meaning of "under-representation"? If not, it means, under represented by a disproportionate amount, not absolute numbers.
Yes, children were hurt in the war. ON BOTH SIDES.
Aha.... After losing your case and stand completely, it suddenly changes to "BOTH SIDES"! What's next? Israeli children are superior because they're "chosen people"? And that's why killing palestinians is justified?
If you bother to research even a little bit, you'll find that the no. of palestinian children killed is >20x higher than any Israeli children killed in such war. Then again, you are already blind to notice such a thing.
Anyway, I call this debate off and intend this to be my last post here (excepting moderation duties) since this debate cannot be continued with someone who has been blindfolded, mentally conditioned and enslaved by ZioNazis.
As a last tribute:
[yt=425,350]D_xNGH9DPyM[/yt]
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no. of palestinian children killed is >20x
Complete and total assertion.
As the for the pictures, they are indeed very shocking. (I assume you are blaming the whole of Israel.)
I will think about them some more, at any rate.
In the 'last tribute', one cannot see exactly what is happening. It appears part of it was cut out, for whatever reason. If what happened is indeed as the video represents, I cannot defend the soldiers on that score.
I never said killing Palestinians are justified! Innocent people of any nationality should be treated as equals, with equal rights to life.
blindfolded, mentally conditioned and enslaved by ZioNazis.
Believe that if you like. I don't.
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I used to spend ages on youtube looking for 'arrogance of us soldiers in iraq' and 'israeli warcrimes'. The fact is, every occupying power of every country regards the country they occupy as inhabited by subhumans. The longer the occupation, the worse it gets. I think Israeli is the longest occupation in history. They must think the palestinians pretty subhuman by now, maybe just above the rats who live in the sewers.
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Not this again....
Look, if people want to know the very meaning of the word Genocide, then the Israeli-Palestinian crisis is the one to take example of.
The truth is that, people need to stop talking about this, becasue it brings back old hatreds. We really need to stop doing this over and over again if we are to evolve as a forum. The administration team needs to be an example of this.
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Not this again....
Look, if people want to know the very meaning of the word Genocide, then the Israeli-Palestinian crisis is the one to take example of.
The truth is that, people need to stop talking about this, becasue it brings back old hatreds. We really need to stop doing this over and over again if we are to evolve as a forum. The administration team needs to be an example of this.
We've discussed it and the consensus was to allow topics which could be against our views. Nevertheless, tolerance to opposing views is a must in an international, public forum.
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WOW!!!
hard on debate!!
NICE!!
now lets try reasonin out here aite?
no.1
stop dragging HAMAS in2 this
nobody said they r good
(note. im not sayin bad either, i dont much info on these ppl, so im not commentin on dem. but i read the whole debate, and u were the 1 who started the debate:P)
ISRAEL killed INNOCENT ppl
from turkey
open fire m8
killed many
and it aint 2 far in the past
jus happened wen there ws aid goin to GAZA
they shot dem up
cold blood m8
now
u need to diffrentiate between the places YOU HAVE been to
and the OTHER places
NOT allowed to be viewed by the regular civilian
lets see pakistan for an instance
bcoz im 1 :P :D:D:D
u want 2 call pakistan full of gd ppl
and deres no prob over dere?
go 2 pakistan
and live in the presidents house and area
no probs
lifes amazing
leave dat area....and BOOM
ppl killin ppl
coldblooded murder
now the purpose of dat ^ is dat anybody who wants to see sumthin will surely find it
but turnin a blind eye to rest of the evidence and counter argumenting with sumthing totallly unrelated
aint gonna make anybdies life kewl
aite guys cheers m8ies:)
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In three years I have heard, arabs will be a majority in palestine, and in 40 a majority in israel.
They can't be denied justice forever.
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Not this again....
Look, if people want to know the very meaning of the word Genocide, then the Israeli-Palestinian crisis is the one to take example of.
The truth is that, people need to stop talking about this, becasue it brings back old hatreds. We really need to stop doing this over and over again if we are to evolve as a forum. The administration team needs to be an example of this.
As Borakk said, we want to promote open-mindedness and tolerance, especially in the face of opposing views because we want the forum to be an international platform, not a racial or ethnic or politically segmented one.
Everyone will have an equal opportunity to argue their case provided that they do not use offensive language and keep away from personality attacks on others.
And yes, to quote EPG: "WHAT HAPPENS IN THE DEBATE FORUM STAYS IN THE DEBATE FORUM, AND DOESN'T GET OUT!"
This is what we are trying to implement. "Old hatreds" have no place on a debate platform. What happens in the debates should not get out. And exactly, this is what the administration has tried here, with Borakk being the first example. :)
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ISRAEL killed INNOCENT ppl
from turkey
open fire m8
killed many
and it aint 2 far in the past
jus happened wen there ws aid goin to GAZA
they shot dem up
cold blood m8
I you are referring to the Gaza Flotilla...
What happened was this:
The Flotilla refused to be searched by Israel for weapons and to dock at Israel's harbor. (Gaza doesn't even have a port.) The flotilla was in Israel's waters. Israel was in charge. Israel let down a few soldiers armed with paintball guns
A team of 15 Israeli Shayetet 13 naval commandos abseiled onto the ships from helicopters with paintball guns, plastic bullet riot dispersal handguns, and hidden firearms. The first team commander was thrown over the deck head down, abducted and stabbed, along with a second commando, and a third was grabbed off the rope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid)
stop dragging HAMAS in2 this
Uhm, Hamas will be left out of this when they leave themselves out of this.
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I you are referring to the Gaza Flotilla...
What happened was this:
The Flotilla refused to be searched by Israel for weapons and to dock at Israel's harbor. (Gaza doesn't even have a port.) The flotilla was in Israel's waters. Israel was in charge. Israel let down a few soldiers armed with paintball guns
A team of 15 Israeli Shayetet 13 naval commandos abseiled onto the ships from helicopters with paintball guns, plastic bullet riot dispersal handguns, and hidden firearms. The first team commander was thrown over the deck head down, abducted and stabbed, along with a second commando, and a third was grabbed off the rope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid)
Uhm, Hamas will be left out of this when they leave themselves out of this.
lol
u mite wanna chek the top of the article
it says sumthin bout it bein 1 handed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10226151
try this
anyway
paintball guns definitly dont take lives truss
else ill be livin in the guilt of killin me own friends:P
and bak on Hamaz
i thot this debate ws about israel
not bout hamaz
i dunno bout hamaz and i wud even research it
if it ws related
2 this topic
u see
if a small force frm a large country attacks u
u dont fricken destroy the whole city
country
or state
c wat i mean
?
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Israel has now trained and armed the settlers in the west bank to deal with palestinian demonstrators. I see more death on the way.
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it says sumthin bout it bein 1 handed
I don't see it, dude.
if a small force frm a large country attacks u
u dont fricken destroy the whole city
country
or state
c wat i mean
?
Uh, no. What do you mean?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10226151
Yah, it says some of the activists were hurt/killed as well. What can you expect when you attack?
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What can you expect when you attack?
I expect still to live.
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If only Israel had a less aggressive foreign policy :-X
it's amazing living standards ,it's freedom of religion and speech and it's democratic values will be appreciated throughout the Arab world.
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I expect still to live.
What would you consider your right as victim when attacked by a mob? Is it not within the law that you may defend yourself? Or should the victim just ask them nicely to put their guns and their kinives down or else... he'll raise his voice?
If only Israel had a less aggressive foreign policy
it's amazing living standards ,it's freedom of religion and speech and it's democratic values will be appreciated throughout the Arab world.
Thanks dude. You recognise some of Israel's good values. :)
Acually they don't have such an agggresive foreign policy. They waited eight years before they responded to the rocket attacks from Gaza. (Also, please note, they gave Gaza away for peace).
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Israel is about to become a great deal less secure. The west is declining and the palestinians' natural allies are increasing in strength. Israel wont make peace now and it's future is slipping away from it as a jewish state.
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@astarmathandphysics
You didn't reply about the self-defense.
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Self defense works on all sides. The Palestinians have a right to guns so they can defend themselves just As Israel does but Israel won't let them have any.
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Do you think Israel should send them rockets too? They don't seem short on that. And they don't use it for 'self-defence'. They shoot into civilian areas in Ashkelon and Sderot, from land given them for peace.
If a person attacks you with a knife, do you give him a gun 'just to make it fair'? Or do you defend yourself?
Also, on the flotilla, the activists did have weapons. Which was the problem. If they had said: okay, search the boat for bombs and missiles, it's fine, we don't want to kill you all. Israel wouyld have searched the boat, and delivered the aid. But no, the activists had to storm them and throw them overboard and pelt them with metal rods. Doesn't sound like self defence to me.
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Ever heard about asymetric warfare?
If Israel gave away half their weapons to the palestinians they could fight like Israel.
At the moment anyway Israel doesnt take great pains to avoid collateral damage, which results in about 10 times more palestinians being killed in any exchange of fire.
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about 10 times more palestinians being killed
Validate please.
Neither does Hamas, their government, take great pains to prevent their own people from being collateral damage, firing from schools and mosques.
Maybe it would be smart on the side of Hamas not to make war and rather find a peaceful way of negotiating, if they have such a disadvantage. They would indeed appear more the victim if they didn't attack Israeli civilians.
http://www.peacewithrealism.org/headline/admit.htm (http://www.peacewithrealism.org/headline/admit.htm)
Previously, the latest air strike on the Gaza Strip hit Bureij refugee camp in central Gaza late Friday night, killing two men.
The Al-Quds Brigade, the armed wing of the Islamic Jihad, confirmed that one of the men, Emad Abu Abda, was their member. The other man's identity and possible affiliations were not immediately known.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/08/201182064926150828.html (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/08/201182064926150828.html)
Israel, in targeting a refugee camp managed to take out only two people!
Meanwhile, ISA officials noted the number of terror attacks originating in the Hamas-ruled Gaza rose to 135, compared to just 30 originating in Israeli-administered Judea and Samaria. Meanwhile, six terror attacks originated in Jerusalem, compared to eight in July.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/147563
The rockets from Hamas are terror attacks, they aren't attacks on the army.
The Arab truck driver who ran down 18 people and killed one last month has been charged with terrorism.
Don't you think it would be utterly stupid of Israel to give half their weapons to an organisation that seeks only its harm?
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Ho am sure hamas would aim there rockets at military targets if they had more accurate rockets. Suggest Israel give them some.
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What an idea! To give accurate rockets to a people who vows to kill the Jews:
Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm (http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm)
That would be positively suicidal! Speaking of which http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/147859 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/147859).
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Tell me what is the ratio of dead jews to dead palestinians in palestine?
I would be surprised if there were less than 10 dead palestinians for every dead jew.
It
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Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a true pain in the butt. Why do Palestinians even fire rockets on Israel when it knows if Israel wants it can literally annihilate every inhabitant on the west bank and Gaza.
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Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a true pain in the butt. Why do Palestinians even fire rockets on Israel when it knows if Israel wants it can literally annihilate every inhabitant on the west bank and Gaza.
Why? If someone claims your territory as theirs and above that kills people, what would you do? Bow down..
I except anyone to fight back in such a case and that is what Palestine is doing.
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Why? If someone claims your territory as theirs and above that kills people, what would you do? Bow down..
I except anyone to fight back in such a case and that is what Palestine is doing.
Palestinians never owned that land By the way. Israelis or the Jews did. They migrated to Palestine after they escaped from ancient Egypt. And going by your argument Israel should reply back with a much deadlier force because technically Palestinians are killing Israeli citizens something which any sovereign nation would not tolerate.
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Not hundreds killed, only a few. Still is to many.
When americans think of jews and palestinians, they remember americans and red indians.
America had to be rid of the red indians - as they now are - and I am sure americans see killing of palestimians as purifying the holy land in the same way.
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http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000636#graph1
If Israel wants peace then why is it against creation of a Palestinian state....population of jews are increasing every year and more settlements are being built for them....its clear Israel wants all that land for itself and want to completely finish the idea of Palestine..now its working on convincing the world and specially the Arabs that Palestinian land belongs to Jews...and its clear that even if Israel kills all the Palestinians with all the illigal weapons no one is going to say anything cause big western countries are with them..
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Not this westerner.
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hmmm....
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I am always on the side of the rebels anyway but palestine is such a bleeding injustine that everyone must be made to think what they would do if their land is stolen from them.
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Temporal ordering - Israel/Zionists occupied the land first, and then Palestinians started firing rockets.
Israel cannot say that the reason they occupied Palestine was because Palestinians started to fire rockets, if my premise was correct.
Unfortunately, a vast majority of Jews who fail to recognize the vast human injustices being perpetrated in Palestine feel that anyone who speaks out against the inhumane actions of Israel simply "hates" Israel, and since such a feeling is obviously not justified, everything they say is irrational and exaggerated. Hence, the person above who I am assuming is Jewish, or part Jewish, since he/she is the subject of propaganda such as this (if anyone speaks out against Israel's actions, they hate Israel - hating Israel is not right, therefore they are irrational, do not believe anything they say or find any sense in their arguments). A skewed interpretation of world views is also achieved - the vast majority of the world feels that Palestine is an injustice perpetrated by Israel, however, many a Jew you will meet who feels that public opinion is in his/her favor, and that most people actually feel that Palestinians deserve what they get from the IDF.
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If everyone here were anti Jewish I would probably play the Jew and take some punishment.
Doesnt change that Israel is committing war crimes in Palestine.
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I heard this morning that a Palestinian from the Gaza strip burnt himself alive about the situation in the Gaza strip.
Israeli's will see this as a bonus. If every Gazan did this, Israel could have it's settlements back.