IGCSE/GCSE/O & A Level/IB/University Student Forum
Teachers and Students => Debates => Topic started by: $tyli$h Executive on May 29, 2010, 08:45:01 am
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Income and corporation taxes... and charity..
People give long 'virtuous' lectures about charity, but I believe, if a business provides corporation tax and does not try to evade it, the owners or the shareholders are automatically giving charity (and more than necessary of it). We don't need any further provision for charity, be it for religious reasons or not. But it may be done for gaining publicity, if seen fit.
The minimum charity in Islam is only about 2.5% to 3% of net worth, whereas the rate of income and corporation tax is well above 10% in all countries. Other religions are likely to have similar figures. Therefore, the requirement of any religion is automatically fullfilled, given people and businesses don't try to evade taxes.
The income and corporation taxes are used by the governments in many ways, which mostly supports the poor (eg. roads and bridges in rural areas, subsidies to loss making businesses which provides employment to the poor, in some countries, unemployment benefits etc. etc. etc. ). So, its similar to helping the poor with charity.
Any problem with my assumption?
You may passively discuss religion because this topic is closely related, but try not to insult any religion.
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I don't like to discuss religion.
1) My Mom has worked for the tax dept for 20 good(rather bad) years.
2) There is no company that sincerely pays taxes
3)Charity is done out of good will...it's not a compulsion. If someone does it because religion says so and not out of your own will, then it's not charity, it's something you do out of fear, fear of God.
4) The Government does not always(most of the times) allocate resources well.
5) Taxes are Politician's assets...It's a fact.
Summary: Taxes not equal to Charity No way.
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I agree, no businesses pays taxes sincerely (evaded through accounting loopholes, usually), but the rate is definitely high. Most businesses who avoid it have to pay some, at least some. And that surely compensates the amount required for charity.
Its very difficult for employees of corporations to evade taxes.
Taxes could be given out of good will too. Like, "its my country, my people, and I pay taxes for the betterment of them.". The government could achieve it through a good publicity.
Its the government's own headache whether he uses his tax revenues in a good way or not. Like I pay a poor man as a charity. But he forgets to pick up the money when he leaves and loses it as a result. Its definitely not my fault.
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It's not your fault. It's the Government. If you fail to plan.You plan to fail. This is the state of most developing countries. We all pay taxes for the betterment of the country? You think so. Maybe a few. A few sincere ones like us. The big ones know how to evade taxes, the poor don't. End result...The rich grows richer, the poor becomes poorer. It's a sad case-Government/Politics
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It's not your fault. It's the Government. If you fail to plan.You plan to fail. This is the state of most developing countries. We all pay taxes for the betterment of the country? You think so. Maybe a few. A few sincere ones like us. The big ones know how to evade taxes, the poor don't. End result...The rich grows richer, the poor becomes poorer. It's a sad case-Government/Politics
Frankly speaking, we dislike paying taxes. And for that, we evade a good amount of taxes too. Its the truth. :-X
But looking further into WHY do we dislike paying taxes, I can see its because of the government's inability to plan things effectively, and the corruption of the many officials.
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Frankly speaking, we dislike paying taxes. And for that, we evade a good amount of taxes too. Its the truth. :-X
But looking further into WHY do we dislike paying taxes, I can see its because of the government's inability to plan things effectively, and the corruption of the many officials.
Agreed.
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Charity is giving away what you need, not what you have to.
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Charity is giving away what you need, not what you have to.
I NEED money. We all do. So does taxation qualify as charity ? I am giving it away under the ASSUMPTION it will be used to benefit my fellow man.
In a country like India where resources are not allocated properly (If I were tax payer) I'd keep my money for myself.
Why ? Because I know (this isnt an assumption) that the Indian Government is built on bureaucracy and stupidity.
Our political system sucks big time. In India you can be elected minister if you are a good actor and can fire speeches at a crowd of expectant poor people - they will support you because at least you give them hope.
This is the state of our affairs - this is the same country predicted to become a Superpower and the same nation with a booming GDP.
We can't even get heavy machinery to a railway crash in time to save people in time. So where did all the money go ?
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I NEED money. We all do. So does taxation qualify as charity ? I am giving it away under the ASSUMPTION it will be used to benefit my fellow man.
In a country like India where resources are not allocated properly (If I were tax payer) I'd keep my money for myself.
Why ? Because I know (this isnt an assumption) that the Indian Government is built on bureaucracy and stupidity.
Our political system sucks big time. In India you can be elected minister if you are a good actor and can fire speeches at a crowd of expectant poor people - they will support you because at least you give them hope.
This is the state of our affairs - this is the same country predicted to become a Superpower and the same nation with a booming GDP.
We can even get heavy machinery to a railway crash in time to save people in time. So where did all the money go ?
I like it when you follow me. :P :P
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I like it when you follow me. :P :P
I edited my post (in red).
Did you even read what I said ? :P
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I like it when you follow me. :P :P
Ouch!
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I edited my post (in red).
Did you even read what I said ? :P
Nah, I'm just too tired already. :)
I will read... Later. ;)
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Ouch!
I dont get it ? Was she insulting me ? :P
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Ouch!
It's good, I see more people participating actively in debates these days. MUCH better than this section was before. ;)
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It's good, I see more people participating actively in debates these days. MUCH better than this section was before. ;)
;)
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;)
MODERATOR SPAM !!!!!!!!! :P ::)
It's good, I see more people participating actively in debates these days. MUCH better than this section was before.
I have 8 days of freedom till my exams restart. Thats why I am here - I enjoy debating.
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MODERATOR SPAM !!!!!!!!! :P ::)
Sorry :-[
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MODERATOR SPAM !!!!!!!!! :P ::)
I have 8 days of freedom till my exams restart. Thats why I am here - I enjoy debating.
8 days is a lot. ;)
But still less than the difference that can be made with them.
Good to know we share the same hobby.
Nid, I really love your sig. :) :-*
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Sorry :-[
I'll let you off with a warning. ;)
Next time you'll be sweating it in the slammer >:( :P Jokkkkkkkkkkiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiingggggggggggg !!!!!!!!
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I'll let you off with a warning. ;)
Next time you'll be sweating it in the slammer >:( :P Jokkkkkkkkkkiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiingggggggggggg !!!!!!!!
yea wtv :P
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It's good, I see more people participating actively in debates these days. MUCH better than this section was before. ;)
Yes. Exactly. We missed debaters like Ari in the previous session.
Welcome Ari! :D
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Charity is giving away what you need, not what you have to.
Need?! You mean give everything? If I don't have any money, I'll still have to give charity?! ::)
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Need?! You mean give everything? If I don't have any money, I'll still have to give charity?! ::)
Need, yes.
Charity is different from throwing away, or giving for your own benefit.
If you give away something you do not need, it's simply throwing it away, instead of into a bin, into someone's hands. That is not the essence of charity. Charity is directly linked to compassion, and sacrifice, though people use the name to hide the aims of their actions. They give with the intention of obtaining more. "Give an egg, and take back the chicken."
But that is not helping. Because charity is altruistic, selfless. If you keep giving, and take back more, you would not have made the recipient's situation better, but worse. The poor is giving then. And the rich is simply taking and taking, till the poor completely dry out.
You give what you yourself need. Then you are sacrificing. Then you feel the pain of others. And then do you give more. Your action is pure, because it's selfless. You ask not when you give. Like Kahlil Gibran says: "It is when you give of yourself that you truly give."
You need time, you give some to the poor children who lack affection and attention. You give your own pack of lunch, that's charity. You give your clothes that are dear to you, that is charity. Charity is not only money. Normally, people give away that proportion of their money which is insignificant to their real incomes. Give more, of what you really need, that is charity.
Giving is an art, as some said. Simple reasoning, because artists use their hands to speak out their heart. That is charity.
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Need, yes.
Charity is different from throwing away, or giving for your own benefit.
If you give away something you do not need, it's simply throwing it away, instead of into a bin, into someone's hands. That is not the essence of charity. Charity is directly linked to compassion, and sacrifice, though people use the name to hide the aims of their actions. They give with the intention of obtaining more. "Give an egg, and take back the chicken."
But that is not helping. Because charity is altruistic, selfless. If you keep giving, and take back more, you would not have made the recipient's situation better, but worse. The poor is giving then. And the rich is simply taking and taking, till the poor completely dry out.
You give what you yourself need. Then you are sacrificing. Then you feel the pain of others. And then do you give more. Your action is pure, because it's selfless. You ask not when you give. Like Kahlil Gibran says: "It is when you give of yourself that you truly give."
You need time, you give some to the poor children who lack affection and attention. You give your own pack of lunch, that's charity. You give your clothes that are dear to you, that is charity. Charity is not only money. Normally, people give away that proportion of their money which is insignificant to their real incomes. Give more, of what you really need, that is charity.
Giving is an art, as some said. Simple reasoning, because artists use their hands to speak out their heart. That is charity.
*ahem*!
No thanks! Its difficult enough to give away something I don't need, let alone something I need! ::)
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*ahem*!
No thanks! Its difficult enough to give away something I don't need, let alone something I need! ::)
Then how come you give your time? :)
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Hmm... after reading all the points.. and according to my knowledge.. taxes are not equal to charity!
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Then how come you give your time? :)
Ah, my previous post was an overstatement! I'm not so stingy!
BUT, and a BIG but, I don't agree that you have to become a santa clause in case of Charity. Give only if you have the ability to. But according to your logic, even poor people should give charity. ::)
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Ah, my previous post was an overstatement! I'm not so stingy!
BUT, and a BIG but, I don't agree that you have to become a santa clause in case of Charity. Give only if you have the ability to. But according to your logic, even poor people should give charity. ::)
Hehe, yeah. Interesting comment. :)
And the poor need everything they have.
Then, they shouldn't go according to my logic.
Which logic then? Take and take?
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Need, yes.
Charity is different from throwing away, or giving for your own benefit.
If you give away something you do not need, it's simply throwing it away, instead of into a bin, into someone's hands. That is not the essence of charity. Charity is directly linked to compassion, and sacrifice, though people use the name to hide the aims of their actions. They give with the intention of obtaining more. "Give an egg, and take back the chicken."
But that is not helping. Because charity is altruistic, selfless. If you keep giving, and take back more, you would not have made the recipient's situation better, but worse. The poor is giving then. And the rich is simply taking and taking, till the poor completely dry out.
You give what you yourself need. Then you are sacrificing. Then you feel the pain of others. And then do you give more. Your action is pure, because it's selfless. You ask not when you give. Like Kahlil Gibran says: "It is when you give of yourself that you truly give."
You need time, you give some to the poor children who lack affection and attention. You give your own pack of lunch, that's charity. You give your clothes that are dear to you, that is charity. Charity is not only money. Normally, people give away that proportion of their money which is insignificant to their real incomes. Give more, of what you really need, that is charity.
Giving is an art, as some said. Simple reasoning, because artists use their hands to speak out their heart. That is charity.
In a capitalistic society where every member gets what he deserves according to his ability ,why should that person donate.Government should provide education for all be it poor or rich but thats where the role should finish. After that it depends on the person and his ability to afford what he wants
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~Alpha, I am sure, taxes = charity. Taxes are a rip off to be honest. God bless our rates are much lower than other countries. But the amount we give in taxes, is definitely used (at least, say 50% of our tax money, in case of an inefficient government) for constructing bridges, hospitals, education and etc which are necessary for poor people. Thus, we do not have to give charity if we pay taxes promptly. Not to mention the fact that usual tax rates are MUCH higher than our religion assumes to be the minimum. And considering that we and most people only give charity because their religion tells them to, taxes fulfill the purpose by some way.
And asking the question 'Does government use taxes in a proper way?' is not sensible. If I donate to a poor person, I assume no responsibility of how he spends it. He could use it to set up a small shop, or could even use it to buy heroin. Whatever it is, I bear NO responsibility for that. Thus, our religious obligation is fulfilled whenever we give charity. We need not consider whether it is spent in a proper way or not. So, if we pay taxes, we pay charity.
Alpha, it is normal that people adopt the 'give, take and take' strategy. After all, we and others give charity because religion tells us to and sometimes to show people. We are not living in a fantasy world like Santa Clause where money is unlimited, that everybody has the ability to 'give, give, and give! ::)
And no, I'm not being cruel or something. But this is the fact.
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In a capitalistic society where every member gets what he deserves according to his ability ,why should that person donate.Government should provide education for all be it poor or rich but thats where the role should finish. After that it depends on the person and his ability to afford what he wants
For the government to give money, it should first be having the funds. And poverty is not a priority, a government may be having other projects as well. AND people claim to be dependent, then why when they have problems they should always hope for the government to help? Where does the money come?
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For the government to give money, it should first be having the funds. And poverty is not a priority, a government may be having other projects as well. AND people claim to be dependent, then why when they have problems they should always hope for the government to help? Where does the money come?
But those 'other projects' are mostly for the benefit of poor people! :-\
For example,
1. Subsidizing sugar mills - mostly poor people are the workers over there. They benefit.
2. Building roads and bridges in rural areas - mostly used by poor people.
3. Microcredit schemes - only for poor people willing to start a business.
MANY more.
So, if I give tax, I help poor people (the above are just a few ways). So, taxes = Charity.
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~Alpha 08:41:13 PM Viewing Who's Online.
~Alpha 08:44:18 PM Viewing the topic Taxes and Charity?! WHAT's THE DIFFERENCE?!!!.
She's still viewing it... Don't know when she'll post. ::)
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But those 'other projects' are mostly for the benefit of poor people! :-\
For example,
1. Subsidizing sugar mills - mostly poor people are the workers over there. They benefit.
Giving poor people low order level jobs will help them? Prices are also rising... remember.
Do you think subsidies are efficient tools? I see them as a paralyzing factor.
2. Building roads and bridges in rural areas - mostly used by poor people.
That does not bring them food, shelter and clothing-- the basics.
3. Microcredit schemes - only for poor people willing to start a business.
Rich people would work and tire themselves out to hell for their tax money to be given to the poor ones who are going to set up small businesses, sell at lower prices, take away their consumers and increase competition?
MANY more.
So, if I give tax, I help poor people (the above are just a few ways). So, taxes = Charity.
Are you?
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~Alpha 08:41:13 PM Viewing Who's Online.
~Alpha 08:44:18 PM Viewing the topic Taxes and Charity?! WHAT's THE DIFFERENCE?!!!.
She's still viewing it... Don't know when she'll post. ::)
Who pays you to spy on me? :P
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Giving poor people low order level jobs will help them? Prices are also rising... remember.
Do you think subsidies are efficient tools? I see them as a paralyzing factor.
I know, its paralyzing. But giving them charity outright is also a paralyzing factor, don't you think?
That does not bring them food, shelter and clothing-- the basics.
They already have that. Besides, only if they have road, bridges etc they will be able to look for work elsewhere and earn money for food, shelter, clothing etc etc etc... Labour needs to be mobile. Money is the key to everything.
Rich people would work and tire themselves out to hell for their tax money to be given to the poor ones who are going to set up small businesses, sell at lower prices, take away their consumers and increase competition?
The government would do that. The reason why rich people evade taxes is due to the inefficiency of the government. But it'll increase in the future, I hope.
Are you?
Ummm... actually yes, though not in full. But that should be enough for charity considering 2.5% is the min. according to religion.
Who pays you to spy on me?
You. ::)
You're so less active in the debates nowadays.
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~Alpha 08:58:35 PM Posting in Taxes and Charity?! WHAT's THE DIFFERENCE?!!!.
EMINEM!!! ;D
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I know, its paralyzing. But giving them charity outright is also a paralyzing factor, don't you think?
But it's not paralysing the whole economy... still.
They already have that. Besides, only if they have road, bridges etc they will be able to look for work elsewhere and earn money for food, shelter, clothing etc etc etc... Money is the key to everything.
I think we also have roads, bridges etc. Still, do they find work?
Poor people do not live in valleys, or at the other side of riverbanks. They are everywhere, even there where the rich are.
The government would do that. The reason why rich people evade taxes is due to the inefficiency of the government. But it'll increase in the future, I hope.
Then why are people looking for their democracy? Modern man no longer wants communism.
Ummm... actually yes, though not in full. But that should be enough for charity considering 2.5% is the min. according to religion.
Yes... Thankfully, religion still lives.
You. ::)
You're so less active in the debates nowadays.
I try my best to be.
I sack you from your job then. :P
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You took 16 minutes to post this. :P
But it's not paralysing the whole economy... still.
Its the same. You start 'paralyzing' the poor people by giving loads of charity, they become lazy and don't look for a job. Your economy becomes lazy ultimately, since often in countries like BD, poor people are greater in number than rich. And it is important that they do not become lazy.
Imagine it this way. If somebody were poor, but the rich people of the community suddenly announced a regular level of charity for them, high. They will no longer have the incentive to work. Less GDP, less well off economy.
I think we also have roads, bridges etc. Still, do they find work?
Poor people do not live in valleys, or at the other side of riverbanks. They are everywhere, even there where the rich are.
The factor here is labour mobility. Work is not often available in the villages. But is abundant in cities like here. Though urbanisation could put a strain in the longer term, at least they will be more mobile and able to look for work better. Thus fend for their family better.
Yes they are everywhere even where there are rich. But its their failure. We are not anyone to blame for it.
Then why are people looking for their democracy? Modern man no longer wants communism.
"Democracy" and "Communism" are not interchangeable. :P Its the fault of the govt.
Yes... Thankfully, religion still lives.
You thought I were a spoilt brat?!!! :P
But I wouldn't call myself to be religious.
I try my best to be.
I sack you from your job then.
Oh hello? ::)
Spying is my business, not job. :P
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You took 16 minutes to post this. :P
And days...? :)
Its the same. You start 'paralyzing' the poor people by giving loads of charity, they become lazy and don't look for a job. Your economy becomes lazy ultimately, since often in countries like BD, poor people are greater in number than rich. And it is important that they do not become lazy.
Then, what to do? If you say taxes are charity, then we shouldn't be paying taxes?
Imagine it this way. If somebody were poor, but the rich people of the community suddenly announced a regular level of charity for them, high. They will no longer have the incentive to work. Less GDP, less well off economy.
It's natural that if you give away what you need, you won't give many.
The factor here is labour mobility. Work is not often available in the villages. But is abundant in cities like here. Though urbanisation could put a strain in the longer term, at least they will be more mobile and able to look for work better. Thus fend for their family better.
Yes they are everywhere even where there are rich. But its their failure. We are not anyone to blame for it.
Standard of living is damn high in cities. Poor people, if they work there, would get a very meager salary. How will they survive in a world alien to their own?
"Democracy" and "Communism" are not interchangeable. :P Its the fault of the govt.
And of the people who vote for the govt.
You thought I were a spoilt brat?!!! :P
Wasn't talking about you, but people in general.
Oh hello? ::)
Spying is my business, not job. :P
Very profitable, your business. ::)
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And days...? :)
Then, what to do? If you say taxes are charity, then we shouldn't be paying taxes?
We can pay taxes. But not give charity. But we can do so just to gain publicity or recognition for example by donating a political party.
It's natural that if you give away what you need, you won't give many.
I need my mobile phone, my laptop, my computer, my watch, my TV. Is it natural and the deed of a sane person to give them away? Only philosophical people are mad enough to give them away and I'm not one.
Standard of living is damn high in cities. Poor people, if they work there, would get a very meager salary. How will they survive in a world alien to their own?
Better than living in villages and earning nothing or stealing (poor people are very expert at stealing, fyi).
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We can pay taxes. But not give charity. But we can do so just to gain publicity or recognition for example by donating a political party.
But if you keep paying taxes, business incentives will be low. And governments compete to attract investments.
I need my mobile phone, my laptop, my computer, my watch, my TV. Is it natural and the deed of a sane person to give them away? Only philosophical people are mad enough to give them away and I'm not one.
I didn't call anyone mad. Nor did I mean to give away everything.
Better than living in villages and earning nothing or stealing (poor people are very expert at stealing, fyi).
Prejudice > You can't make them scapegoats. Rich people steal too.
Strange... these same villages give them what they need to stay alive.
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But if you keep paying taxes, business incentives will be low. And governments compete to attract investments.
Tax rates at present don't cause any disincentives. All governments are VERY careful not to set tax rates so as to cause disincentives. And evading charity doesn't mean an increase in the tax rates. People are not discouraged to take up jobs and do business now, despite the high rates of taxes. So, they will not have any disincentive to do the same if they avoid charity cause taxes=charity.
Prejudice > You can't make them scapegoats. Rich people steal too.
Rich people steal, but in a civilized manner. They are MUCH better than the poors who steal for the fun of it.
Nor did I mean to give away everything.
Then don't tell "Give what you need!"!. :P
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Tax rates at present don't cause any disincentives. All governments are VERY careful not to set tax rates so as to cause disincentives. And evading charity doesn't mean an increase in the tax rates. People are not discouraged to take up jobs and do business now, despite the high rates of taxes. So, they will not have any disincentive to do the same if they avoid charity cause taxes=charity.
Rich people steal, but in a civilized manner. They are MUCH better than the poors who steal for the fun of it.
Then don't tell "Give what you need!"!. :P
You forget that taxes tend to penalize a part of the population, be it progressive, regressive, or proportionate. But charity is not an imposition. People who can and are willing to pay, feel absolutely free to do so. Now, how many of them are willing... still remains to be checked.
LOL, rich people steal in a civilized manner? They also kill in a 'civilized' manner. Then, they are 'civilized' criminals. ;)
Then, we must be having a 'civilized' court to judge them, 'civilized' prisons to keep them in, and if their crime is heinous, a 'civilized' death? LOL, seriously Borakk? :P
And about the "give what you need". A simple example. You have kept some yogurt in the fridge. It got spoiled, meaning you don't need it anymore. So, you will give away the yogurt YOU can't eat to someone poor, just because throwing it away is a waste??
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You forget that taxes tend to penalize a part of the population, be it progressive, regressive, or proportionate. But charity is not an imposition. People who can and are willing to pay, feel absolutely free to do so. Now, how many of them are willing... still remains to be checked.
LOL, rich people steal in a civilized manner? They also kill in a 'civilized' manner. Then, they are 'civilized' criminals. ;)
Then, we must be having a 'civilized' court to judge them, 'civilized' prisons to keep them in, and if their crime is heinous, a 'civilized' death? LOL, seriously Borakk? :P
And about the "give what you need". A simple example. You have kept some yogurt in the fridge. It got spoiled, meaning you don't need it anymore. So, you will give away the yogurt YOU can't eat to someone poor, just because throwing it away is a waste??
Charity=less incentives for Poor people to work
Taxes=More money for public welfare,creating more employment and thus total income rises.
KAPISH!
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Charity=less incentives for Poor people to work
Taxes=More money for public welfare,creating more employment and thus total income rises.
KAPISH!
Charity, less incentives? I just said it's VOLUNTARY...
And FYI, taxes are compulsory. ;)
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Charity, less incentives? I just said it's VOLUNTARY...
And FYI, taxes are compulsory. ;)
Charity is a must if you are a muslim, Shinto,Buddhist and Christian so there.
and no in Saudi Arabia,Qatar,UAE there are no taxes
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Charity is a must if you are a muslim, Shinto,Buddhist and Christian so there.
and no in Saudi Arabia,Qatar,UAE there are no taxes
Taxes are a must in many countries, whether you are a Muslim, Christian, Shinto, Buddhist, Hindu, Jew; whether your skin is black, white, red, yellow, green; and whether you like it or not.
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Taxes are a must in many countries, whether you are a Muslim, Christian, Shinto, Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, whether your skin is black, white, red, yellow, green, and whether you like it or not.
AND WHAT ABOUT THE MOST IMPORTANT COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD
GCC or Scandinavian countries (correct me if i am wrong)
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and no in Saudi Arabia,Qatar,UAE there are no taxes
What?! People must be living in heaven there!!! :o
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What?! People must be living in heaven there!!! :o
All the oil companies are state owned so they dont really need to collect taxes.
Saudi Aramco (the largest company in the world generates about 260 billion dollars a year) is 99 percent owned by the Saudi Government.
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Dangers of Producing oil though
IF THE PRICE OF DOLLAR DECREASES BY only 1.The Opportunity cost in saudi Arabia amounts to 55 million dollars a day :P that is why they are diversifying
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You forget that taxes tend to penalize a part of the population, be it progressive, regressive, or proportionate. But charity is not an imposition. People who can and are willing to pay, feel absolutely free to do so. Now, how many of them are willing... still remains to be checked.
LOL, rich people steal in a civilized manner? They also kill in a 'civilized' manner. Then, they are 'civilized' criminals. ;)
Then, we must be having a 'civilized' court to judge them, 'civilized' prisons to keep them in, and if their crime is heinous, a 'civilized' death? LOL, seriously Borakk? :P
And about the "give what you need". A simple example. You have kept some yogurt in the fridge. It got spoiled, meaning you don't need it anymore. So, you will give away the yogurt YOU can't eat to someone poor, just because throwing it away is a waste??
And you tend to forget the focus of this topic. This topic focuses on whether taxes and charity are equal or not!. Not the system or method of taxes or charity.
Charity is voluntary, but most people pay it just cause their religion tells them to or just to show people. So, its not actually voluntary, just like taxes. And if the fact that "Taxes = Charity" is publicized by the government through various promotion medias extensively, people will be more willing to pay taxes, some will even pay it voluntarily. They will avoid charity, whose purpose is served by taxes. If people can make the purpose of charity serve in taxes, why pay taxes and charity separately and waste money?
Yes. It is much better and honourable to steal in a civilized manner. I strongly believe that stealing is not bad, but it must be done in a civilized and honourable way.
And the value of charity is deemed by the person who receives it. If a rich person has a plate of rice, which is one day old and a little stale, it is of very little value to him because he can easily cook another plate of rice or buy them. But to a poor people, this one plate of rice (be it stale), is of very high real value because he is after all, tensed whether he will get his next meal or not. It is very pleasing for him to know that he is able to get his next meal (doesn't matter to him if it is stale), without being tensed or working hard for it. So, even if we give poor people what we don't need, it is of a very high real value to them. And as long as this serves true, your equation of "give what you need" doesn't hold true. The "give what you don't need" formula is true.
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And the value of charity is deemed by the person who receives it. If a rich person has a plate of rice, which is one day old and a little stale, it is of very little value to him because he can easily cook another plate of rice or buy them. But to a poor people, this one plate of rice (be it stale), is of very high real value because he is after all, tensed whether he will get his next meal or not. It is very pleasing for him to know that he is able to get his next meal (doesn't matter to him if it is stale), without being tensed or working hard for it. So, even if we give poor people what we don't need, it is of a very high real value to them. And as long as this serves true, your equation of "give what you need" doesn't hold true. The "give what you don't need" formula is true.
You are speaking so generally .Tastes and needs vary across the world.In Saudi Arabia there is a very small amount of people who are starving (like in 80s or 90s).
Poor people(with low incomes ) think that Government should provide them with a job and pay which is what is given to foreigners.They dont want food as they can afford it easily.
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Saudi Arabian or middle east country's people are generally rich. Here, I was talking about poor people who earn less than $5 a day.
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Saudi Arabian or middle east country's people are generally rich. Here, I was talking about poor people who earn less than $5 a day.
So why are we even discussing this when every region is in so contrast to each other.
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The middle east is a small part of the globe. That's why....! ::)
In most regions, people are not (on average) as rich as the middle easterners. Though middle east countries depend very much on oil.
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The middle east is a small part of the globe. That's why....! ::)
In most regions, people are not (on average) as rich as the middle easterners. Though middle east countries depend very much on oil.
I didnt even go to western Europe(excluding Spain and southern Italy) ,Australia and New Zealand,North America (excluding Mexico) or even South American countries such as Argentina and Colombia
o_0
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Gosh, don't undermine the number of poor people in the world. In developing countries, 29% of people earn less than $1.25 a statistic says. Even America and other developed countries have a good number of poor people. Just google it, and you'll learn.
In middle east, south asian workers earn much less than the locals. Those countries just, basically, hate foreigners. So, you cannot claim that there's no poverty in those countries.
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Gosh, don't undermine the number of poor people in the world. In developing countries, 29% of people earn less than $1.25 a statistic says. Even America and other developed countries have a good number of poor people. Just google it, and you'll learn.
In middle east, south asian workers earn much less than the locals. Those countries just, basically, hate foreigners. So, you cannot claim that there's no poverty in those countries.
tsk
but those are foreigners and that takes another topic entirely. American or Israeli diaspora is one of the highest in the world with 52 000 Americans in France alone and therefore are not counted in National surveys ?
And in America,it varies across state to state.it's a federation *United states of America* with each state determining it's own expenditure.
I have heard Chicago is one of the richest?
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Inequalities are common. Its normal to have substantial income inequalities in all countries.
I went to UK. So, I can tell you, things in UK are generally THREE or MORE times expensive than what it costs here. So, the media of comparison used is in question itself! If a person living in UK earns pound 100, is he better or worse off than a person in Bangladesh earning pound 100 equivalent of BDT? Food for thought!
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Inequalities are common. Its normal to have substantial income inequalities in all countries.
I went to UK. So, I can tell you, things in UK are generally THREE or MORE times expensive than what it costs here. So, the media of comparison used is in question itself! If a person living in UK earns pound 100, is he better or worse off than a person in Bangladesh earning pound 100 equivalent of BDT? Food for thought!
true
Religion,custom,tastes,culture all make regions so different to each other
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LOL, I lost my grip. But it's nice to see more people interested in debating. ;)
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LOL, I lost my grip. But it's nice to see more people interested in debating. ;)
This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.
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This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.
And how unfortunate that to wake up people, there has to be an earthquake first. ;)
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And how unfortunate that to wake up people, there has to be an earthquake first. ;)
oops.
i Didnt know who i was speaking to :P
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oops.
i Didnt know who i was speaking to :P
Now you do. :P
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This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.
Gosh, you must've learnt philosophical stuffs from Alpha, didn't you?! ;D
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Gosh, you must've learnt philosophical stuffs from Alpha, didn't you?! ;D
No sorry
I have Joker(dark knight) as my mentor
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Gosh, you must've learnt philosophical stuffs from Alpha, didn't you?! ;D
That was not philosophical. :P
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And you tend to forget the focus of this topic. This topic focuses on whether taxes and charity are equal or not!. Not the system or method of taxes or charity.
Charity is voluntary, but most people pay it just cause their religion tells them to or just to show people. So, its not actually voluntary, just like taxes. And if the fact that "Taxes = Charity" is publicized by the government through various promotion medias extensively, people will be more willing to pay taxes, some will even pay it voluntarily. They will avoid charity, whose purpose is served by taxes. If people can make the purpose of charity serve in taxes, why pay taxes and charity separately and waste money?
Yes. It is much better and honourable to steal in a civilized manner. I strongly believe that stealing is not bad, but it must be done in a civilized and honourable way.
And the value of charity is deemed by the person who receives it. If a rich person has a plate of rice, which is one day old and a little stale, it is of very little value to him because he can easily cook another plate of rice or buy them. But to a poor people, this one plate of rice (be it stale), is of very high real value because he is after all, tensed whether he will get his next meal or not. It is very pleasing for him to know that he is able to get his next meal (doesn't matter to him if it is stale), without being tensed or working hard for it. So, even if we give poor people what we don't need, it is of a very high real value to them. And as long as this serves true, your equation of "give what you need" doesn't hold true. The "give what you don't need" formula is true.
~How on Earth, Heaven, Hell, and Underworld ::) can charity be a must if religion itself is voluntary?
Religion is a freedom, a universal right, according to Article 18 of the United Nations. Governments cannot equate charity and taxation, since they have no right to amend the Human Rights.
And tell me, in an underdeveloped country, where a majority of the population lives in destitute poverty, how can the concept of tax=charity be prevail? Who will the govt. tax? The poor?
Whereas... it could be getting financial aid from other countries (free of conditions)-- that would be charity. Even if it's quite improbable, it does prove taxes are not charity.
~If stealing is not bad, then what, earning your daily bread legally by putting in efforts is bad?
~Yes, true, it is deemed by the receiver. But still that is not strong reason enough for those who have money to, now, make a mockery of the poors' poverty.
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This question is futile in its efforts.
Charity by definition is Kindness. You are simply meaning it in terms of Physics Property. A choice that you have decided to make.
Taxes is the duty of a citizen.
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~How on Earth, Heaven, Hell, and Underworld ::) can charity be a must if religion itself is voluntary?
Religion is a freedom, a universal right, according to Article 18 of the United Nations. Governments cannot equate charity and taxation, since they have no right to amend the Human Rights.
And tell me, in an underdeveloped country, where a majority of the population lives in destitute poverty, how can the concept of tax=charity be prevail? Who will the govt. tax? The poor?
Whereas... it could be getting financial aid from other countries (free of conditions)-- that would be charity. Even if it's quite improbable, it does prove taxes are not charity.
~If stealing is not bad, then what, earning your daily bread legally by putting in efforts is bad?
~Yes, true, it is deemed by the receiver. But still that is not strong reason enough for those who have money to, now, make a mockery of the poors' poverty.
What are you talking about.?
Government has no right to amend the human rights?Saudi arabia,Qatar, East Timor, Bhutan, Colombia, Bolivia ,Poland (these are members of United nations and are the most religiously biased countries in their approach towards welfare of their population.
United Nations is a joke of a club.Security council is dominated by those nations that won the world war two like 60 years ago? and they can invade a nation provided all the members agree on it.
Whereas... it could be getting financial aid from other countries (free of conditions)
Aid is always received with strings attached and now after the global financial crisis, rich nations will probably dig up their own grave if they give money without conditions applied.
What the poor countries need right now is not money but THE forgiveness of the millions and billions of dollars of debt.Once, their debt is forgiven they could look forward to purchasing capital machinery and therefore improve its economic output.
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What are you talking about.?
Government has no right to amend the human rights?Saudi arabia,Qatar, East Timor, Bhutan, Colombia, Bolivia ,Poland (these are members of United nations and are the most religiously biased countries in their approach towards welfare of their population.
United Nations is a joke of a club.Security council is dominated by those nations that won the world war two like 60 years ago? and they can invade a nation provided all the members agree on it.
I mean, any one government or any one politician cannot amend the laws as it wants to. Imagine Mugabe imposing his standards on the whole world.
A joke of a club? Well, then, this is the biggest joke of humankind ever. :P
Aid is always received with strings attached and now after the global financial crisis, rich nations will probably dig up their own grave if they give money without conditions applied.
What the poor countries need right now is not money but THE forgiveness of the millions and billions of dollars of debt.Once, their debt is forgiven they could look forward to purchasing capital machinery and therefore improve its economic output.
I predicted this. That's why I added :Even if it's quite improbable, it does prove taxes are not charity.
That forgiveness you are talking about would be charity, in pure terms.
And maybe my knowledge is limited compared to yours... apparently here...
Can your majesty please explain how people can possibly exercise 'political freedom' without having recourse to freedom of expression? They take a crystal bowl and call a sorcerer, and try to guess what thoughts are wandering people's minds? Or the people contact each other by telepathy? Or I don't know, there must be some white pigeons still conveying messages secretly? ::)
Like watching mute TV? ;)
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I mean, any one government or any one politician cannot amend the laws as it wants to. Imagine Mugabe imposing his standards on the whole world.
A joke of a club? Well, then, this is the biggest joke of humankind ever. :P
I predicted this. That's why I added :Even if it's quite improbable, it does prove taxes are not charity.
That forgiveness you are talking about would be charity, in pure terms.
And maybe my knowledge is limited compared to yours... apparently here...
Can your majesty please explain how people can possibly exercise 'political freedom' without having recourse to freedom of expression? They take a crystal bowl and call a sorcerer, and try to guess what thoughts are wandering people's minds? Or the people contact each other by telepathy? Or I don't know, there must be some white pigeons still conveying messages secretly? ::)
Like watching mute TV? ;)
Okay I am lost, i dont know where i am heading .
But to the last part i already replied
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Okay I am lost, i dont know where i am heading .
But to the last part i already replied
Take your time. I'm in no hurry. :)
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~How on Earth, Heaven, Hell, and Underworld ::) can charity be a must if religion itself is voluntary?
Religion is a freedom, a universal right, according to Article 18 of the United Nations. Governments cannot equate charity and taxation, since they have no right to amend the Human Rights.
And tell me, in an underdeveloped country, where a majority of the population lives in destitute poverty, how can the concept of tax=charity be prevail? Who will the govt. tax? The poor?
Whereas... it could be getting financial aid from other countries (free of conditions)-- that would be charity. Even if it's quite improbable, it does prove taxes are not charity.
~If stealing is not bad, then what, earning your daily bread legally by putting in efforts is bad?
~Yes, true, it is deemed by the receiver. But still that is not strong reason enough for those who have money to, now, make a mockery of the poors' poverty.
Where on the earth, heaven, hell and underworld did I claim charity to be a must? :P
We're not talking here about UN or their laws.
Govt. will tax everybody, rich and poor, and take "charity" from everybody ("Charity" will be included in taxes).
Financial aid? That would still be a deal. Countries do not provide financial aid for free. Its usually in return of some opportunities for the businesses of the aid-giver country.
Stealing is not bad, if it is done in a civilized way. Its a credit, in fact, that you have been able to do it in a civilized way. Period.
You say that charity and taxes are not equal because one is voluntary and another is not. But, they are in fact. I proved this in my earlier posts. And if they are accepted to be equal by everybody, money wastage in charity will be avoided and this money could be put in more productive uses. Why pay twice if just "taxes" serve the purpose? I bet, nobody would pay charity, though its voluntary, if they knew that taxes=charity.
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Alpha seems to have left the house. :/ :(
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Alpha seems to have left the house. :/ :(
Lonely? ::) :P Give her a call then.. :P :P
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Lonely? ::) :P Give her a call then.. :P :P
Lonely online*.
By the way, I meant she had just left this debate. :P
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It's peak time in Evo. I'll debate where I don't have much to write.