IGCSE/GCSE/O & A Level/IB/University Student Forum

Teachers and Students => Debates => Topic started by: Freaked12 on June 23, 2010, 05:21:56 pm

Title: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 23, 2010, 05:21:56 pm
Model of running a economy.

In a Nazi Model , there was a emphasis  of völkisch nationalism, a strong central government movement, with economic socialism to create a popular, centrist nationalist-oriented workers movement that could challenge the rise of Communism .

I know your argument stylish that it depends on the leaders of how well a economy runs but other th*n that, what is your opinion?
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: $tyli$h Executive on June 23, 2010, 06:43:15 pm
Capitalism has failed to deliver what? It is the MOST successful form of economic model. See America, Britain and any other highly developed country in the world. They are capitalists, believe in democracy and are thus, more successful than communist society.

Communist countries inevitably lag behind that of capitalist ones. They believe in autocratic planning, which will inevitably fail and is very unsuitable when handling an economy.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Saladin on June 23, 2010, 08:11:59 pm
Capitalism has failed to deliver what? It is the MOST successful form of economic model. See America, Britain and any other highly developed country in the world. They are capitalists, believe in democracy and are thus, more successful than communist society.

Communist countries inevitably lag behind that of capitalist ones. They believe in autocratic planning, which will inevitably fail and is very unsuitable when handling an economy.

Yes, and this "most successful" model causes downturns that are far more damaging than any other economic system.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 23, 2010, 10:20:20 pm
Capitalism has failed to deliver what? It is the MOST successful form of economic model. See America, Britain and any other highly developed country in the world. They are capitalists, believe in democracy and are thus, more successful than communist society.

Communist countries inevitably lag behind that of capitalist ones. They believe in autocratic planning, which will inevitably fail and is very unsuitable when handling an economy.

This same system has resulted in Greatest recession since 1930's. Government has since increased its expenditure by 1.45 trillion dollars clearly going against the very principles of Capitalism itself.

Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Saladin on June 23, 2010, 10:33:54 pm
This same system has resulted in Greatest recession since 1930's. Government has since increased its expenditure by 1.45 trillion dollars clearly going against the very principles of Capitalism itself.

And a 100% capitalistic society is un-attainable. But to be frank on my behalf, I support the mixed economic system.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 23, 2010, 10:40:32 pm
And a 100% capitalistic society is un-attainable. But to be frank on my behalf, I support the mixed economic system.

America was also a mixed economy although on the capitalistic extreme..every economy is mixed economy ..and clearly it is not producing results is it?
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Saladin on June 23, 2010, 10:46:21 pm
America was also a mixed economy although on the capitalistic extreme..every economy is mixed economy ..and clearly it is not producing results is it?

Well yes, but it is certainly doing better than North Korea.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 23, 2010, 10:50:13 pm
Well yes, but it is certainly doing better than North Korea.

And Nazi Model.......It transformed Germany from one of the poorest to one of the most developed. It gave a sense of unity to Germans although minorities suffered a heavy price (which i dont like) for that, gave a foundation for future prosperity and today's munich air port was built in 1937 .

AMAZING airport.Been through it, you see it from the aircraft and it looks like a eagle with a nazi symbol underneath it.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Saladin on June 23, 2010, 10:52:36 pm
And Nazi Model.......It transformed Germany from one of the poorest to one of the most developed. It gave a sense of unity to Germans although minorities suffered a heavy price (which i dont like) for that, gave a foundation for future prosperity and today's munich air port was built in 1937 .

AMAZING airport.Been through it, you see it from the aircraft and it looks like a eagle with a nazi symbol underneath it.

Actually the Nazi model, worked only because it got super cheap loans. It also did not have to pay any debts. It borrowed, but never intended to pay back, because Hitler would start a war....

So yea.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 23, 2010, 10:56:19 pm
Actually the Nazi model, worked only because it got super cheap loans. It also did not have to pay any debts. It borrowed, but never intended to pay back, because Hitler would start a war....

So yea.

And every able worker was put to work building industries, roads, homes, cities, farms etc..And Workers enjoyed a free home, cheap food and cheap transportation.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Saladin on June 23, 2010, 11:05:59 pm
Yes, but personal achievement was not rewarded.

In fact, the nazi system strived to create very dull children. That would obey commands.

Believe me the grip on your freedom is unbearable.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 23, 2010, 11:08:58 pm
Yes, but personal achievement was not rewarded.

In fact, the nazi system strived to create very dull children. That would obey commands.

Believe me the grip on your freedom is unbearable.

But if every man is made to believe that he is working for the greater good of the country, wouldnt he sacrifice freedom for that.My father worked in Moscow in Soviet era and almost all of the russians he met, they told him of undivided loyalty to kremlin
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: maverick on June 23, 2010, 11:14:44 pm
if u create a society based on basic things such as honesty , sincerity and loyalty, u can achieve anything.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 23, 2010, 11:17:50 pm
if u create a society based on basic things such as honesty , sincerity and loyalty, u can achieve anything.

How are you gonna do that. LOL.

Money rules the world..Accept it
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: maverick on June 23, 2010, 11:28:37 pm
and engraved why are u making assertions that nazi era had a grip on freedom of the people

i can say the same about of control over freedom to explore this era by the western powers. i mean when iranian president uttered the word holocaust everyone in the west went nuts! grip on freedom exists everywhere.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 23, 2010, 11:39:11 pm
and engraved why are u making assertions that nazi era had a grip on freedom of the people

i can say the same about of control over freedom to explore this era by the western powers. i mean when iranian president uttered the word holocaust everyone in the west went nuts! grip on freedom exists everywhere.


Agreed 100 percent
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 23, 2010, 11:41:06 pm
and engraved why are u making assertions that nazi era had a grip on freedom of the people

i can say the same about of control over freedom to explore this era by the western powers. i mean when iranian president uttered the word holocaust everyone in the west went nuts! grip on freedom exists everywhere.


Soo what do you think of Nazi model anyway?
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: maverick on June 23, 2010, 11:49:54 pm
ammaar stop acting as if u dont know me!  :)
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 23, 2010, 11:54:04 pm
ammaar stop acting as if u dont know me!  :)

 ..LOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

Stupidity of SF increases Manifold.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: maverick on June 23, 2010, 11:59:32 pm
u love arsenal and u fantasize about hitler since childhood.

nd u just recently purchased a ps3 and i can say a lot more things. how about posting a link of ur facebook profile. surely u dont want privacy to be breached. after all u were the one moaning abt moderators beong able to see stuff u didnt want them to see, for which u alos begged ur friend to join sf(i wonder WHO he is? :P)

Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 24, 2010, 12:02:09 am
Arsenal<3 OWNED

AM I first person to say that. :P.

Astar should give me a reward for recruiting people.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: maverick on June 24, 2010, 12:08:57 am
u shud definitely be rewarded for introducing people to such a good website. i really mean it :) thanks bro.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 24, 2010, 12:17:35 am
u shud definitely be rewarded for introducing people to such a good website. i really mean it :) thanks bro.

<3
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Saladin on June 24, 2010, 12:01:39 pm
and engraved why are u making assertions that nazi era had a grip on freedom of the people

Your statement cannot help but indicate that the Gestapo and the brainwashing of children was not a grip on their freedom. Very accurate you are indeed.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: elemis on June 24, 2010, 12:09:07 pm
@maverick   Go research the Hitler Youth.... should answer your questions.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: $tyli$h Executive on June 24, 2010, 06:25:39 pm
Firstly, the alleged 'virtue' of the command economy or communist system is that it is planned in contrast to the unplanned market economy.  The error in this view is that the market economy is actually very rationally planned by means of consumer demand through the price system.  In a communist system, there is no true market system.

An attempt to plan an entire economy by a central committee is bound to be very inefficient just because the task is so large.  There is no way that a committee of say, 300 planners can know the needs, conditions of resource availability, and localized knowledge spread throughout an economy. They never can exactly.

Second, the command economy ultimately rests on coercion and autocratic style as its means of motivation.  Communists typically claims that the resort to coercion (the Berlin Wall, Russian system, etc.) is not part of their system, but only an unfortunate bad choice in political leaders and that Communism only attempts to control the economy, not people's individual liberties.  But, of course the main element in an economic system is in fact people; therefore controlling an economy is first and foremost control of people--the Berlin Wall was no peculiar misfortune.  It is sufficient to prove that human motivation is diminished and eliminated when coerced.

Third, the command economy or communist economy is a system in which all workers are 'grouped together'.  All work for the benefit of their quotal share of total production.  Individual incentives are absent.  As an example, with 100 workers in an economy each will receive 1/100 of total production.  If one worker shirks, his loss is only 1/100 of the production he otherwise would have generated.  (Imagine the incentives when this system is broadened to a nation of 2000 million or the population!)  Each ends up attempting to live at the expense of others and total production goes down.

And fourth, the incentive of production is to please the political authorities who have life and death control over the workers.  In contrast to the market, where production is predicated on consumer demand, the consumer is forgotten or not valued in a communist economy.

Do I need to justify any further? Democratic and market system WINS. See some examples, USA being a typical economy whose most part is a market system. Can you name ONE economy which has become successful under the umbrella of communist system? None. This proof (of example) should be enough to destroy the stance of the communist system.

Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Saladin on June 24, 2010, 06:50:13 pm
Firstly, the alleged 'virtue' of the command economy or communist system is that it is planned in contrast to the unplanned market economy.  The error in this view is that the market economy is actually very rationally planned by means of consumer demand through the price system.  In a communist system, there is no true market system.

An attempt to plan an entire economy by a central committee is bound to be very inefficient just because the task is so large.  There is no way that a committee of say, 300 planners can know the needs, conditions of resource availability, and localized knowledge spread throughout an economy. They never can exactly.

Second, the command economy ultimately rests on coercion and autocratic style as its means of motivation.  Communists typically claims that the resort to coercion (the Berlin Wall, Russian system, etc.) is not part of their system, but only an unfortunate bad choice in political leaders and that Communism only attempts to control the economy, not people's individual liberties.  But, of course the main element in an economic system is in fact people; therefore controlling an economy is first and foremost control of people--the Berlin Wall was no peculiar misfortune.  It is sufficient to prove that human motivation is diminished and eliminated when coerced.

Third, the command economy or communist economy is a system in which all workers are 'grouped together'.  All work for the benefit of their quotal share of total production.  Individual incentives are absent.  As an example, with 100 workers in an economy each will receive 1/100 of total production.  If one worker shirks, his loss is only 1/100 of the production he otherwise would have generated.  (Imagine the incentives when this system is broadened to a nation of 2000 million or the population!)  Each ends up attempting to live at the expense of others and total production goes down.

And fourth, the incentive of production is to please the political authorities who have life and death control over the workers.  In contrast to the market, where production is predicated on consumer demand, the consumer is forgotten or not valued in a communist economy.

Do I need to justify any further? Democratic and market system WINS. See some examples, USA being a typical economy whose most part is a market system. Can you name ONE economy which has become successful under the umbrella of communist system? None. This proof (of example) should be enough to destroy the stance of the communist system.



You cannot deny however, that communist nations are not allowed to rise by the west. What you see in raw is simply the manifestation of a lot of background work.

The free market system leads to Americans almost unable to afford healthcare. 40% of American wealth is owned by 1% of Americans. It is turning into an Oligopoly. You need to see that where the democratic approach is failing such as in Bangladesh, Kenya. Now if you tell me that this is not a democracy,then I can tell you that democracy is almost non-existent.

Look at China, a centralized government system saved it from the Recession. Right now people in England and America are suffering unlike any other.

And we are talking about extremes here, Capitalism and Communism. You need to get that straight, we are discussing which extreme is the best to opt for.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: $tyli$h Executive on June 24, 2010, 07:26:51 pm
You cannot deny however, that communist nations are not allowed to rise by the west. What you see in raw is simply the manifestation of a lot of background work.

No, I do not agree to the "are not allowed to rise". The communist nation's government has an 'homeland' policy which means that it will not trade in any way with international economies. So, communist nations deliberately adopt a policy of no foreign trade and we all know that foreign trade is the main base of the link between economies. If they adopt such 'reserve' policies, the west are in no fault for this.

Quote
The free market system leads to Americans almost unable to afford healthcare. 40% of American wealth is owned by 1% of Americans. It is turning into an Oligopoly. You need to see that where the democratic approach is failing such as in Bangladesh, Kenya. Now if you tell me that this is not a democracy,then I can tell you that democracy is almost non-existent.

Inequality? Thats a good characteristic in fact. If it were not for inequality, we would not be wealthy, noone would. Now one question - is a market system better, in which an individual has the ability to be very rich, by whatever means, or a communist system, in which you are forced to be poor and have no chance of getting rich unless you're the son of the planners?

You need to see where the democratic approach is being successful. See the US, UK and any developed economy, even the Singapore! What you see in Bangladesh is mainly due to corruption, its not democracy therefore. There is NO citizen's poll for important decisions by the government. The open budget index places BD on the bottomline, indicating that it is not a democratic nation, in fact. Corruption is not any part of democracy. In autocracy, the leader is bound and has the incentive to be corrupt, as like Hitler and many others. Whereas in democracy, you are bound to do what the consensus says.

Quote
Look at China, a centralized government system saved it from the Recession. Right now people in England and America are suffering unlike any other.

China is no more a centralized government. In the earlier days, people weren't even allowed to leave their city, this was the severity of communist rule there, which is no more. Since the 1960s-70s it has made a successful attempt to move towards the market system. The trend is now in fact, towards the market system.

What you see in China, is due to its successful move towards the market system!

For more details:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/200009/29/eng20000929_51540.html

People in England and America suffering? The recession is practically over now. Yes, some investment banks are still in huge debts, but on a personal level, it is history. See the dow jones index, NYSE, NASDAQ, almost all have returned towards their pre-recession levels. They are not suffering in fact. You need to understand that you only see news of suffering in newspapers and channels, not of prosperity. When everything is booming, you only hear positive news. When everything is in recession, you hear bad and pessimistic news. Truth is, eventually, all will prosper again.

You were saying something about China being SAVED from recession! I laughed at that almost! ;D

The Shanghai Composite index (the MAIN stock market of China's index) has FALLEN from 6000 to a staggering 2000 in 2008! one third. Now in Dow Jones, it fell from 12000 to 6000 (minimum and max point) which is half. This signifies that China had in fact, MORE adverse effect due to the recession. Its economic confidence was fragile, with slowed growth, reflected by the drastically falling stock market..

Quote
And we are talking about extremes here, Capitalism and Communism. You need to get that straight, we are discussing which extreme is the best to opt for.

Extreme models exist only in theory, not in practice. Some services like defense will always have to be provided by the government, even in a market economy. So, its better to get straight what we are discussing here:

Command economy means >90% government control.

Market economy means <13% government control.


Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 24, 2010, 07:41:33 pm
Stylish.

Americans or more accurately Republicans are clearly very angry towards Obama for Increasing Government interference in the Economy. They accuse him of Imposing Command economy like principles on America.
There is a deep divided opinion in America over this 1.5 trillion Dollar expenditure by the American Government to save the economy which means Americans still want capitalism to rule the day.

All i am asking this is..it's been 19 years since the end of Cold War .. Capitalism has had to dominate the world for 19 years .What are we seeing now ?

Going back to the 1930s and 1940s where Government share in the economy is increasing day by day.

Communism collapsed because of NO TRADE.

I laugh at this. There was a reason Soviet Union got into a expansionist Policy. The trade between Soviet Bloc, Soviet Union and all those supporting Marxist Ideology had a combined trade of 1.57 billion dollars with Russia providing the main exports.

The reason Soviet Union collapsed was because of Corrupt Leaders in Kremlin and God-Given victories to America in Proxy Wars. Soviet Union Invaded Afghanistan because it wanted to capture the natural gas and minerals in kandahar region in Afghanistan and in the end they wanted to Invade the balochistan region of Pakistan i.e the most valuable in terms of Gas.
Had there been no islam like extremism we would be seeing a Russian empire stretching from Poland to Sindh.

And Clearly you believe everything American media says about their economy ? Right now according to my relatives there is a huge huge unemployment in America with leaders so confused as to where would they place them.
Economic growth was only achieved because of Immense progress by few Big Corporations and employment of workers IN VERY low paid jobs.
China has successfully tackled the unemployment rate, Although i also am not sure about the accuracy of the results because it is Government controlled.

Look at Dubai another prime example of market economy (on the capitalist extreme) where Dubai World had to postpone the repayment of the debt.
Emirates airline and oil (some ) are the only main providers of Income to Dubai Government
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 24, 2010, 08:15:07 pm
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Foreign_trade_of_the_Soviet_Union


The Soviet Union conducted the bulk of its foreign economic activities with communist countries, particularly those of Eastern Europe. In 1988 Soviet trade with socialist countries amounted to 62 percent of total Soviet foreign trade. Between 1965 and 1988, trade with the Third World made up a steady 10 to 15 percent of the Soviet Union's foreign trade. Trade with the industrialized West, especially the United States, fluctuated, influenced by political relations between East and West, as well as by the Soviet Union's short-term needs. In the 1970s, during the period of détente, trade with the West gained in importance at the expense of trade with socialist countries. In the early and mid-1980s, when relations between the superpowers were poor, however, Soviet trade with the West decreased in favor of increased integration with Eastern Europe. [1]
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: $tyli$h Executive on June 24, 2010, 08:25:43 pm
Obama's decision to interfere in the activities of the investment banks? Excuse me, there HAS to be a little intervention even in a market economy which is JUSTIFIED. It was to prevent investment banks to maintain a very low liquidity ratio which was the cause of the recession. The regulation will be lifted when situations relax a bit. This is perfectly justified for obvious reasons. Some Americans who are against are only the shareholders of the investment banks actually.

Communism countries trade with only a FEW CLOSE economies, not with the whole world. Surely, they do not have the same comparative advantage as the market ones who trade with the whole world. You need to know economics better to understand what comparative advantage really is. And is Russia's economic situation better? I laughed that one and a half billion is a BIG trade! Its too and very small a figure. See the figures of other small countries, even Bangladesh. So, better know more before laughing!

China is not government controlled. It is moving away from this. Read the article I posted well.

About the US issue, I already said why. The US economic situation will get much better, eventually. Don't be so pessimistic. Have patience. In 1929, the situation was like this actually. What happened? Everything BOOMED. We are so much richer.

About the inequality, I already explained why it is JUSTIFIED.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 24, 2010, 08:37:27 pm
Obama's decision to interfere in the activities of the investment banks? Excuse me, there HAS to be a little intervention even in a market economy which is JUSTIFIED. It was to prevent investment banks to maintain a very low liquidity ratio which was the cause of the recession. The regulation will be lifted when situations relax a bit. This is perfectly justified for obvious reasons. Some Americans who are against are only the shareholders of the investment banks actually.

Communism countries trade with only a FEW CLOSE economies, not with the whole world. Surely, they do not have the same comparative advantage as the market ones who trade with the whole world. You need to know economics better to understand what comparative advantage really is. And is Russia's economic situation better? I laughed that one and a half billion is a BIG trade! Its too and very small a figure. See the figures of other small countries, even Bangladesh. So, better know more before laughing!

China is not government controlled. It is moving away from this. Read the article I posted well.

About the US issue, I already said why. The US economic situation will get much better, eventually. Don't be so pessimistic. Have patience. In 1929, the situation was like this actually. What happened? Everything BOOMED. We are so much richer.

About the inequality, I already explained why it is JUSTIFIED.


You need to understand the Geo-Politics of 1950s 1960s and 1970s. Back then, Almost whole of North Africa, middle east (after some time) India , Viet Cong, North Korea and China were trading among themselves

YOU NEED to understand Geo-politics before going for economics.I got A star in Business studies.

OBVOIUSLY NO ECONOMY CAN BE 100 PERCENT CONTROLLED OR FREE MARKET COS THAT WOULD BE INSANE.
China is still on a very extreme end of Closed economy end. There's a reason why millions and billionairs are so few in number. Also, if you are a company operating in China you wont probably want to disturb the Government.
Recently Hackers sponsored by Chinese Government itself did 7 attacks on Google.com to steal its source code..

Your point . i will get back to you
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 24, 2010, 08:42:03 pm
America was the only country that boomed.

England and France all suffered extreme recession and unemployment.I dont agree with situation of American economy going better.
We have to understand how the global demand of Dollar will prevail in future issues. If China or Saudi Arabia decide to Stop trading in US Dollars we might as well be seeing a Collapse of US economy.
Security issues have to be taken into consideration.

Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 24, 2010, 08:46:16 pm
here are reasons why Interference by the Government was so despised by some economists

http://mises.org/daily/3471
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the naz
Post by: astarmathsandphysics on June 24, 2010, 08:47:25 pm
The us economy will collapse anyway. Dont have any sympathy for them.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 24, 2010, 08:49:03 pm
Greed of Capitalism combined with Bad economic Judgement of the President ---

Note that not even a word is mentioned about the possible responsibility of the Fed for the present economic crisis. This omission is puzzling.

Recall that the president suggested that he knows how to ask good questions. And yet it seems that when it comes to the world of economics, he has lost this skill and is not asking the relevant questions. He is not arguing with the experts.

according to the website

 
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Saladin on June 24, 2010, 09:00:05 pm
To be honest, I have not had sufficient time to read the whole argument.

But the honest thing is, a capitalistic system has collapsed several times. But the problem is this has not been publicized as much as the fall of communism.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: $tyli$h Executive on June 24, 2010, 09:04:44 pm
Arsenal, we're not talking about 'back then'. Its the present. ;)

China will NEVER stop trading in dollars. Most of its reserves are stored in dollars anyway.

And that article is based on NORMATIVE and OPINION based judgements. It doesn't state both sides of the argument and therefore, is insufficient to come to any conclusion.

Oh well, now America is booming, its out from your calculation. ::) Do I have to prove that EVERY economy is recovering and booming to be able to make a point? ::)

And Arsenal, a debate is nothing personal. You are of course a good student for getting A stars in business. I did not claim that you don't know economics.

The issues which you raised was already dealt by me in my previous posts, in its essential form. Please check them. I already illustrated everything in my previous and this post. I don't have the time to reply and make clear every issue about this topic.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: astarmathsandphysics on June 24, 2010, 09:15:28 pm
People will stop trading in dollars when they have no faith in it. That time is not far away.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 24, 2010, 09:35:53 pm
Arsenal, we're not talking about 'back then'. Its the present. ;)

China will NEVER stop trading in dollars. Most of its reserves are stored in dollars anyway.

And that article is based on NORMATIVE and OPINION based judgements. It doesn't state both sides of the argument and therefore, is insufficient to come to any conclusion.

Oh well, now America is booming, its out from your calculation. ::) Do I have to prove that EVERY economy is recovering and booming to be able to make a point? ::)

And Arsenal, a debate is nothing personal. You are of course a good student for getting A stars in business. I did not claim that you don't know economics.

The issues which you raised was already dealt by me in my previous posts, in its essential form. Please check them. I already illustrated everything in my previous and this post. I don't have the time to reply and make clear every issue about this topic.

BUT uk and America were the flag bearers of Market economy. Werent they?
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 24, 2010, 09:40:48 pm
Wait a minute.Now that i saw the original thread..my original question..should we look at the nazi MODEL which was not anything close to the communist model

*n a Nazi Model , there was a emphasis  of völkisch nationalism, a strong central government movement, with economic socialism to create a popular, centrist nationalist-oriented workers movement that could challenge the rise of Communism .*
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: $tyli$h Executive on June 24, 2010, 10:16:48 pm
Now I don't have any idea about the nazi model but I suppose its communism. And I already proved how communism fails in every turn and how the market system wins.

Engraved, please try to show concrete arguments as to WHY the capitalistic society fails and communist society wins. Less Publicity is not a concrete one. Because noone knows how many times any society ACTUALLY failed, be it communist or capitalistic. Only statistic and publicity is a reliable means to get the information in this case. We cannot dig further.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Saladin on June 24, 2010, 10:25:35 pm
Now I don't have any idea about the nazi model but I suppose its communism. And I already proved how communism fails in every turn and how the market system wins.

Engraved, please try to show concrete arguments as to WHY the capitalistic society fails and communist society wins. Less Publicity is not a concrete one. Because noone knows how many times any society ACTUALLY failed, be it communist or capitalistic. Only statistic and publicity is a reliable means to get the information in this case. We cannot dig further.

I will, but not now. I had this debate a long time ago, and people came to a realization. But the truth is, the Capitalism you see, and the prescribed Capitalism by theory are two very different things.

But, I will talk about this. Essentially the arguments is that personal achievement has to be rewarded, but a perfect Capitalistic economy makes the government redundant.

But I will talk abt this later.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 24, 2010, 10:32:43 pm
Now I don't have any idea about the nazi model but I suppose its communism. And I already proved how communism fails in every turn and how the market system wins.

Engraved, please try to show concrete arguments as to WHY the capitalistic society fails and communist society wins. Less Publicity is not a concrete one. Because noone knows how many times any society ACTUALLY failed, be it communist or capitalistic. Only statistic and publicity is a reliable means to get the information in this case. We cannot dig further.

it''s not communism man
Look at what i wrote
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: $tyli$h Executive on June 25, 2010, 04:50:08 am
Arsenal, its the same as command economy or communist economy ;)
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: elemis on June 25, 2010, 06:59:06 am
People will stop trading in dollars when they have no faith in it. That time is not far away.

Its not so easy. Everything is traded in dollars; oil, steel, gold etc.


The Dollar is the global currency. We are dependent on it and will continue to do so.

Once this crisis is over people will forget about it. Greed will overtake them all once more.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the naz
Post by: $tyli$h Executive on June 25, 2010, 07:10:00 am
The us economy will collapse anyway. Dont have any sympathy for them.

Ah, you just hate Americans! ::)

Eventually, ALL will prosper. Remember the great depression of 1929? What happened? Later, everything bounced back, everyone is so much richer than the pre recession levels of 1929! Stock markets got far higher than the pre recession levels!

ALL will prosper in the long run. America is on the verge of recovery and prosperity itself.

Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: $tyli$h Executive on June 25, 2010, 07:11:35 am
People will stop trading in dollars when they have no faith in it. That time is not far away.

They cannot actually. Most countries trade in dollars. And China has its reserves in dollars itself.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: elemis on June 25, 2010, 07:14:52 am
@stylish  Exactly my thoughts. Its easy to say that the dollar will collapse, but EVERYTHING is valued ultimately in terms of US Dollars.

Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: $tyli$h Executive on June 25, 2010, 07:18:48 am
Yes. I just read that if somebody has more than $6 million in assets-liabilities, he is in the top 1% of the world population. ;D
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: astarmathsandphysics on June 25, 2010, 10:22:13 am
It took about 30 years for the worlds main currency to change from sterling to the dollar. The dollar wont be the main currency in 30 years.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: $tyli$h Executive on June 25, 2010, 10:49:34 am
It took about 30 years for the worlds main currency to change from sterling to the dollar. The dollar wont be the main currency in 30 years.

If the USA continues their economic recovery as it is doing now, we can safely bet the dollar will remain the main currency.

But of course, other currencies may gain much more popularity still.

It doesn't actually matter if the dollar remains the main currency or not. What matters is the economic performance of the US and other countries.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: Freaked12 on June 25, 2010, 05:20:23 pm
Arsenal, its the same as command economy or communist economy ;)

Communism is a social structure in which classes are abolished and property is commonly controlled, as well as a political philosophy and social movement that advocates and aims to create such a society.

Nazism strong central government movement, with economic socialism to create a popular, centrist nationalist-oriented workers movement that could challenge the rise of Communism, as well as the internationalist left and right in general.

 Socialism is an economic and political theory based on public ownership or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources

Got it?  :)
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: I'm a mistake - legalize abortion! on June 25, 2010, 05:25:09 pm
Communism is a social structure in which classes are abolished and property is commonly controlled, as well as a political philosophy and social movement that advocates and aims to create such a society.

Nazism strong central government movement, with economic socialism to create a popular, centrist nationalist-oriented workers movement that could challenge the rise of Communism, as well as the internationalist left and right in general.

 Socialism is an economic and political theory based on public ownership or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources

Got it?  :)

Basically its the mid side..
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the naz
Post by: astarmathsandphysics on June 27, 2010, 04:11:38 pm
The dollar cant stay the main currency with the borrowing so much from china
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the naz
Post by: $tyli$h Executive on June 27, 2010, 08:15:50 pm
The dollar cant stay the main currency with the borrowing so much from china

Please look it here: http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116070&sectionid=3510213

US dollar to remain main global currency, says IMF

The IMF head Dominique Strauss-Kahn

The chief of the International Monetary Fund believes the US dollar will maintain its dominance in the currency world despite speculations that it will be soon substituted by the euro or Chinese yuan.

"The US currency is going to remain the main currency in my opinion for a long period of time, even if it's challenged by some others," Dominique Strauss-Kahn told the Hong Kong Trade Development Council on Wednesday, AFP reported.

Strauss-Kahn called on China to raise the value of its currency, to ease criticisms alleging that Beijing keeps its unit artificially low.

Meanwhile, the IMF managing director noted that the international economy would not face a so-called "double-dip" recession, though he described the pace of recovery as sluggish.

"Our view is not one of a double-dip," Strauss-Kahn said.

"It doesn't mean the probability is zero or that it cannot happen, but it's not our preferred scenario and I don't believe that will be the case."

Strauss-Kahn is due to make a keynote address at the Asian Financial Forum next week.
Title: Re: If communism and Capitalism has failed to deliver, Should we look at the nazi.
Post by: astarmathsandphysics on June 27, 2010, 10:24:35 pm
'long time' for a banker is beyond their next bonus