Teachers and Students > Debates
Death Penalty Vs Life imprisonment
Alpha:
--- Quote from: $tyli$h Executive on December 18, 2009, 12:11:53 pm ---I haven't been offended at all dear! Matter Settled!!!
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Thank You.... :)
I got worried...
vakarian:
well ...looks like the ppl who are saying they should be jailed have never been victims of a crime like stealing or some one they love getting killed and so on ..once it happens to you ,you'll know why they deserve death .
lemme ask you one thing ,if some one you really love is killed ,what you chose for the killer ? .
1.slow death .
2.sitting in a jail having food ,shelter ,new friends ,lazy days ,books ,tv ,gym and all those without having a job ,family and all those headaches .
edit : woooot ...this was my hundredth post :P .
O.T.13.:
@Omer
--- Quote ---We have courts and judges inside them sitting on chairs with a gavel and their most famous dialogue "Order! Order!", listening to both sides of the arguments (to the prosecutors and the accused), eye/ear witnesses, bystanders, and make appropriate decisions based on evidences and proofs. (LOL, I can't help laughing. XD)
Crimes can be biased, people can be biased, but the court is not biased. The law is not partial.
Defence attacks are given special treatment. "Rage attacks"?? Is "rage" a reason valid enough to justify killing? Rage is TEMPORARY. Is it a reason enough to end someone's life PERMANENTLY??
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the efficiency of the death sentence is not something I doubt; its the fact that the criminal will not get the chance to repent; Yea fine hesa bad bad man for killing someone, but why do we have to stoop down to his level? lengthy prison sentences will surely take deteriorate his soul; prison is not a "short ride" you go there, taste some of the worst food thats only enough to help you survive but not necessarily with adequate nutrition, whats going to be the result when the sentence is over? One, he could have learned his lesson and repented, or two, he could be back to his ways, but remember, its not like hes gonna go ahead and kill the first person he sees; most murders are premeditated , I am sure there is more than enough means to prevent him
--- Quote ---"What does killing him do in favour of the victim?"
An eye for an eye, like you said. Death for death.
Killing a criminal will prevent others from becoming victims. It will prevent other crimes from occurring. It will prevent other people from being robbed of their lives. It will prevent other families from losing their members, who might have been the backbone.
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An eye for an eye.... makes the whole world blind; it MYTE prevent other crimes from occurring, but most probably it won't. Murderers have causes to kill, once they killed that victim and accomplished their goal, there will not be much reason to go on a "pyscho-rampage" (and if he does, then hes a mental case, i.e. he should be referred to a mental hospital
--- Quote ---Prevention is better than cure. It's better to prevent other disasters from happening than to try to set things right after they have occurred.
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Again, the percentage of psychopaths and serial killers do not account for the majority of murderers, most murders occurr as a result of love/jealous or revenge; and in both cases I do not see how killing him will reduce the number of future killings, he's already accomplished his goal, he's just gonna try to move on with his life after he's out. Life sentences will rob a lot of his age and probably his fortune too, he will not be able to resume his life, at least now he has a chance to repent and do well.
Also, as you're a Muslim you probably know that already; a lot of countries (mainly Muslim) offers the chance for the murderer or the murderer's family to pay blood money to the victim; believe me, these sums are NOT little; if such a system can be applied then this way at least the family of the victim can have a more tangible compensation than just the "pleasure" of seeing the criminal killed
--- Quote ---And where has the word that dominates the court and the law gone??
JUSTICE. Killing his criminal does justice to the victim. It does justice to his family. It does justice to a whole nation.
To do justice is the main reason for which the law exists. If the law stops doing justice, people will lose faith in it.
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Yes true, justice, the golden word of law. But how affective would killing the murderer give to the Family? A robber has to pay back whatever he robs to the victim, thats justice served; a company is ordered to compensate an employee for an accident because of a problem with the company's working area or whatnot, thats justice served. In both cases the victim gained something; what does the family of a killed victim get? Blood money is not gonna resurrect him, but at least the family is able to get some sort of a compensation, a compensation that costs the criminal very dearly financially and age-wise (since hes gonna be lsing a few dozen years in jail).
--- Quote ---I've already discussed about prisons being transformed into hotels in my previous post.
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yea i see what you mean, but look at it this way; isnt it the government's duty in the first place to make sure nobody has the need to do so? a jail is supposed to be the one place with the worst standard of living in the entire country! its not supposed to be a hotel, its supposed to be a place where you are forced to learn discipline and possibly have a chance to meditate and repent
And the third way to look at it:
Suppose what you say is practised, do you find any difference between a criminal and any ordinary citizen?? Any ordinary farmer?
The farmer makes his own food, pays his bills, etc. Besides, to do business, a criminal MUST have access to the outside world. Where has "security" gone now? Where is "punishment"? Where is "crime"? And see, where the "criminal" has reached!
--- Quote ---As i said before, my idea also includes that the prisoners are not ALLOWED to make any profit, farmers can; farmers can have the aid of capital, prisoners won't since they do not have profits and hence can't afford to buy any capital. And no, they do not have to access the outside world, the security can transport the goods for them; prisoners should never leave prison, its a part of the punishment
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Better, make a bungalow for them--- with NO entrance at all, no underground tunnels, NOTHING!
The public wants to feel 100% safe!
--- Quote ---yea but how will they get out after serving their sentence out :P
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--- Quote ---The death penalty is the only guaranteed punishment that is going to make a criminal's first crime be his LAST one. We cannot eradicate crime. But if by eradicating criminals we can diminish crimes, that is justice to the world!
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That is ONE type of justice. But as I already said, its too blind, its not totally wrong, but it is not the best choice. Justice myte be served, but thats as far as it goes. Punishments such as the one i mentioned can actually help the country and raise cheaper food (since no profits will be made) for those who need it; and combined with paying blood money, this gives benefit to both the state as well as the family of the victim, not to mention the dear loss of age and finance of the murderer
$tyli$h Executive:
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I agree with OT13 that a serious criminal could be sent to exile, perhaps a distant island, allocated for such offenders.
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--- Quote from: ~Alpha on December 18, 2009, 09:56:37 am ---@Stylish Executive
You know what? As I read your first line itself, I got surprised. WHY should you even differentiate between law abiding citizens and law breaking citizens??
Citizens are, first and foremost, CITIZENS. If they all have the same rights, they ALL have the SAME RESPONSIBILITIES as well! Whether or not they adhere to law is something that comes after, much after!
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Don't you think you are diverting from the topic a bit? I did not develop my point in one sentence. So you should not argue based upon your conclusion after reading the first sentence. So, I would advise you to read the whole paragraph, carefully, think and then argue for your conclusions based on the WHOLE paragraph.
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--- Quote from: ~Alpha on December 18, 2009, 09:56:37 am ---@Stylish Executive
"Are part of the game" which the LAW is going to end. If I know the game would anyway be ended by the law (by my own death), why then in the first place itself should I be playing this game? I know if I kill for a first time, I will be killed by the law, I won't be in a position able to kill again. I know if I am going to play a big game, I will not be there later to reap the results of my "stakes", WHY then should I stake MY LIFE???
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There are many reasons for which a criminal commits a crime. It is not necessarily limited to need, or any other simple thing. The point which you illustrated is your thinking. You must understand that not everybody thinks in a similar way. I would suggest you to consult a mental physician if you want to know more about why people commit crimes.
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--- Quote from: ~Alpha on December 18, 2009, 09:56:37 am ---@Stylish Executive
LOL, seems like it's become a new trend: people nowadays commit crimes in order to REMAIN in prison, most of them in order to get out of the poverty trap--- and that totally redefines "prisons" and their purpose!
Agree, poverty can sometimes be unbearable. But that doesn't mean we should bear crime!
In five simple words, prisons are not gratis hotels.
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Why do criminals try to escape from the police, then? There are many poor peoples in the world. Not everybody of them are criminals. Only a minority of them are. That is why I differentiated from LAW ABIDING AND LAW BREAKING CITIZENS!!!. Every poor people has needs, but only SOME OF THEM ARE COMMITING CRIMES!!! I think you should have understood this. Again, you must read my WHOLE paragraph and understand what I am trying to say, then argue.
A man or woman who commits crimes to 'remain in prison' is mentally handicapped. And all of the participants of this debate (maybe except you!) will agree with me.
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--- Quote from: ~Alpha on December 18, 2009, 09:56:37 am ---@Stylish Executive
"Imposing life imprisonment would make our citizen's lives equally safe".
Let me put this clear. Somebody who kills deprives people of their FIRST, BASIC, FUNDAMENTAL right which is above ALL other rights: their right to life. A world infested with such people does NOT make our citizens' lives "safe". Walking in the streets with the constant worry of being attacked is NOT what I call leading a "safe" life. Going out with little hope of returning back in one whole piece (LOL :D) is NOT what I call leading a "safe" life. Maybe for you, "safe" has another meaning. :P
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YOU are opposing YOURSELF!!! You said that Everybody are citizens of a country. Aren't criminals citizens too?
According to my theory, the serious offenders (like murderer, rapists or drug traffickers) will be KEPT BEHIND BARS! The cells will be supervised by honest police officers. The criminals won't get any chance to escape from the cells, regardless of how much they try. This will make our citizen's life safe for sure.
I think you have a misconception/misunderstanding about the definition of life imprisonment. I would suggest you to look it up in wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment . In a debate, you should always know what exactly is your topic after all.
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--- Quote from: ~Alpha on December 18, 2009, 09:56:37 am ---@Stylish Executive
Hey hello! $ 28.4 billion on WHAT exactly??? Food for the prisoners? Clothes for them? All their basic facilities? And what about the money that goes into building those prisons, on land, their opportunity costs?? The money that goes into the police force? Into the court? Into security measures? In compensations, if ever there are? In transferring prisoners?
Well, I don't work in the army, but I do have that little knowledge to be able to tell you that expenditure on prisons is not confined to inside the cells only!
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After reading this, I actually thought you are joking :D . But you seem to be serious.
Well I have one advice for you: KISS not :-* , but KEEP IT SIMPLE and STRAIGHTFORWARD! Also THINK this way!
To make it clear, 28.4 billion USD was the expenditure figure for 2008 on prisons. It was the TOTAL expenditure (variable cost, not fixed costs or external costs) for running the prison. Prisons are not rebuilt every year. It has already been built, perhaps long before you and I were born.
If you are confused about what are the variable costs of running a prison, it includes repair, foods, employing security measures and staffs and etc. You may wish to look it up in wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_cost
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--- Quote from: ~Alpha on December 18, 2009, 09:56:37 am ---@Stylish Executive
P.S. Kindly let me know when you're gonna change your name, parents and gender! :P :D
Seriously, don't you get tired typing this every time? :P
I got tired reading it again and again. :P
Come on, we people here are not that close minded. Just read the debate rules and put a final full stop there! ;)
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You must understand that not everybody thinks like you (and me!)! As I said before, I am the co-admin of another forum run by my uncle. My experience is that if you oppose to somebody else, he/she occasionally gets offended even if you are polite. So, I write this. I am sorry if you get tired reading this again and again. I will write it again and again. That's my writing style when I oppose somebody. But considering your request, I am changing it.
NB. "if you are barely civilized, let yourself loose!"
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O.T.13.:
Damn you people write so much you make me feel so pointless to remain in the debate :D
Anyways, I combined $tyliSh Exectuive's Posts and combined them into one (Seven back-to-back posts was a LOT)
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