Why can equality not prevail?

[Freaked12]

LOL.

Okay

Cheers 

[Deadly_king]

Discrimination is a hellhound that gnaws at us in every waking moment of our lives to remind us that the lie of our inferiority is accepted as truth in the society dominating us.

Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of creative altruism or in the darkness of destructive selfishness.

Have we not come to such an impasse in the modern world that we must love our enemies - or else? The chain reaction of evil - hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars - must be broken, or else we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.

Martin Luther King Jr.

[Freaked12]

Discrimination is a hellhound that gnaws at us in every waking moment of our lives to remind us that the lie of our inferiority is accepted as truth in the society dominating us.

Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of creative altruism or in the darkness of destructive selfishness.

Have we not come to such an impasse in the modern world that we must love our enemies - or else? The chain reaction of evil - hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars - must be broken, or else we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.

Martin Luther King Jr.

There have been wars since the beginning of human dominated world.
What do you really mean?

It's in our blood to eat, hate, to get racist, to murder if called upon, to mock and to feel superior.
Now it would be very easy to state i do not do those stuff yet some where in your past, believe me, you did some of those i mentioned if not all.

Did you know the human lust for power and greed resulted in killing of the grandson of our Holy Prophet ,Imaam Hussein ?

Yes that's right. By our own muslim Brothers.

[Deadly_king]

There have been wars since the beginning of human dominated world.
What do you really mean?

Am not saying wars should be abolished but it should neither take place for petty reasons.

It's in our blood to eat, hate, to get racist, to murder if called upon, to mock and to feel superior.
Now it would be very easy to state i do not do those stuff yet some where in your past, believe me, you did some of those i mentioned if not all.

Am no perfect man. But we can always try to stay away from such things as far as possible.

Did you know the human lust for power and greed resulted in killing of the grandson of our Holy Prophet ,Imaam Hussein ?

Yes that's right. By our own muslim Brothers.

Lust for power and greed are two things which I consider evil.

[$tyli$h Executive]

Lust for power and greed are two things which I consider evil.

Lust for power and greed, expressed in the correct way (ie, not competing directly for the resources of others), is what I consider to be one of the greatest virtues of human beings. It is the root for all progress of mankind.

If someone achieved a very good result, its because he/she had a lust for achievement. If someone is rich and prosperous, it is because he had a strong lust/greed for money and has worked for it. If Malaysia is so developed compared to what it was 15 years ago, it is because of the lust and greed of Mahathir Mohammad for a prosperous economy.

Contrary to what everyone believes, the fact is that the lack of money/power is the root of all evil.

[Deadly_king]

Lust for power and greed, expressed in the correct way (ie, not competing directly for the resources of others), is what I consider to be one of the greatest virtues of human beings. It is the root for all progress of mankind.

If someone achieved a very good result, its because he/she had a lust for achievement. If someone is rich and prosperous, it is because he had a strong lust/greed for money and has worked for it. If Malaysia is so developed compared to what it was 15 years ago, it is because of the lust and greed of Mahathir Mohammad for a prosperous economy.

Contrary to what everyone believes, the fact is that the lack of money/power is the root of all evil.

I understand what you mean but I don't fully agree with you. It's indeed the fact of not having money or power that creates evil. But if someone takes everything for himself, he's condemning others which will revolt.

Am not saying you should not have money or prosper in life. Rather you should always earn the maximum but you need not be greedy. This can always be detrimental to your pocket.

Definition of greed :
An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.

In other words, it's earning in excess which is not good. You need to leave some for your neighbours or colleagues as well. You cannot take all for yourself despite the fact that you may be hard-working and deserve all the money you actually earn.

If you have time, do read this.

[Dibss]

^ Well-argued, DK. (:

[Alpha]

I am both Malaysian, by birth, and Bangladeshi. You'll have a multi-cultural experience with me then.

 Good one.

I understand what you mean but I don't fully agree with you. It's indeed the fact of not having money or power that creates evil. But if someone takes everything for himself, he's condemning others which will revolt. Am not saying you should not have money or prosper in life. Rather you should always earn the maximum but you need not be greedy. This can always be detrimental to your pocket. Definition of greed : An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth. In other words, it's earning in excess which is not good. You need to leave some for your neighbours or colleagues as well. You cannot take all for yourself despite the fact that you may be hard-working and deserve all the money you actually earn. If you have time, do read this.

If you think well, inequality isn't bad. Everybody cannot be equal if man has to move on in life.

I don't imagine myself living in a world where everybody is poor, everybody illiterate, and everybody, a criminal. It can be in this sense too, nah.

[$tyli$h Executive]

I understand what you mean but I don't fully agree with you. It's indeed the fact of not having money or power that creates evil. But if someone takes everything for himself, he's condemning others which will revolt.

Am not saying you should not have money or prosper in life. Rather you should always earn the maximum but you need not be greedy. This can always be detrimental to your pocket.

Definition of greed
An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.

In other words, it's earning in excess which is not good. You need to leave some for your neighbours or colleagues as well. You cannot take all for yourself despite the fact that you may be hard-working and deserve all the money you actually earn.

If you have time, do read this.

There is some contradiction here. In the previous part, you said that we do have a right to prosper and earn the maximum. While in the latter part you said that greed is not good ie. possessing more than one needs/deserves. How can one prosper and earn the maximum and at the same time, possess not more than one needs/deserves?

Also, the word need and deserve was used as the synonym. I don't think this is the case. In my opinion, whether someone deserves something is determined by whether he has it or not. You deserve it, so you have it. You don't, so you don't have it. Its pretty simple.

To be realistic, one needs very less. I need very less wealth to cover my basic needs (eg. shelter, food, security etc). Talking in that respect, I do not need to study in a good expensive school which offers Cambridge syllabuses. I can get my basic education in a local, feeble one. That would cover my needs well. While at the same time, I'm sure, this is something everyone including you would disapprove of.

The desire to acquire excessive wealth and materialistic possessions has been the root of all progress of mankind. It is a virtue and everyone should practice it, in my opinion. Everyone should have the excessive desire to acquire excessive wealth and they should work for it. This system will ensure our (the mankind, as a whole)'s progress.

It is only harmful when someone directly competes for the resources of others. What I mean to say is, take the example of a person. He has a friend who has more wealth than him. He becomes greedy of his friend's wealth.

Now, this can be expressed in two ways. First: Due to this desire, he can set his mind to be more wealthy than his friend. By doing so, he will have to do better in business and/or his job. Or he will have to look for other better opportunities which may feed his desire. Second: He becomes jealous of his friend and makes a plot to grab his wealth by some means.

The first one is a virtue, is good, and is something which has caused the human race to progress this far. The second one is not good and often backfires.

I hope I'm clear.

[$tyli$h Executive]

Good one.

Thanks!

If you think well, inequality isn't bad. Everybody cannot be equal if man has to move on in life.

I don't imagine myself living in a world where everybody is poor, everybody illiterate, and everybody, a criminal. It can be in this sense too, nah.

Nice!

Its so good to see you hate being poor, illerate etc. A break from "poverty is good" kind of assumption.

[Alpha]

There is some contradiction here. In the previous part, you said that we do have a right to prosper and earn the maximum. While in the latter part you said that greed is not good ie. possessing more than one needs/deserves. How can one prosper and earn the maximum and at the same time, possess not more than one needs/deserves?

Also, the word need and deserve was used as the synonym. I don't think this is the case. In my opinion, whether someone deserves something is determined by whether he has it or not. You deserve it, so you have it. You don't, so you don't have it. Its pretty simple.

To be realistic, one needs very less. I need very less wealth to cover my basic needs (eg. shelter, food, security etc). Talking in that respect, I do not need to study in a good expensive school which offers Cambridge syllabuses. I can get my basic education in a local, feeble one. That would cover my needs well. While at the same time, I'm sure, this is something everyone including you would disapprove of.

The desire to acquire excessive wealth and materialistic possessions has been the root of all progress of mankind. It is a virtue and everyone should practice it, in my opinion. Everyone should have the excessive desire to acquire excessive wealth and they should work for it. This system will ensure our (the mankind, as a whole)'s progress.

It is only harmful when someone directly competes for the resources of others. What I mean to say is, take the example of a person. He has a friend who has more wealth than him. He becomes greedy of his friend's wealth.

Now, this can be expressed in two ways. First: Due to this desire, he can set his mind to be more wealthy than his friend. By doing so, he will have to do better in business and/or his job. Or he will have to look for other better opportunities which may feed his desire. Second: He becomes jealous of his friend and makes a plot to grab his wealth by some means.

The first one is a virtue, is good, and is something which has caused the human race to progress this far. The second one is not good and often backfires.

I hope I'm clear.

Waiting to see what King replies. The debate is getting interesting with you two.
By the way, if you did not notice it, this is turning all philosophical.  

In my opinion, whether someone deserves something is determined by whether he has it or not. You deserve it, so you have it. You don't, so you don't have it. Its pretty simple.

Nah, there are many things people deserve but they don't have. Merit and achievement may be closely related, but the relationship they share might not always be positive or proportionate.
E.g. Bin Laden deserves to be locked, he isn't.

The desire to acquire excessive wealth and materialistic possessions has been the root of all progress of mankind. It is a virtue and everyone should practice it, in my opinion. Everyone should have the excessive desire to acquire excessive wealth and they should work for it. This system will ensure our (the mankind, as a whole)'s progress.

It is only harmful when someone directly competes for the resources of others. What I mean to say is, take the example of a person. He has a friend who has more wealth than him. He becomes greedy of his friend's wealth.

Now, this can be expressed in two ways. First: Due to this desire, he can set his mind to be more wealthy than his friend. By doing so, he will have to do better in business and/or his job. Or he will have to look for other better opportunities which may feed his desire. Second: He becomes jealous of his friend and makes a plot to grab his wealth by some means.

I think what he meant was that excessive desire leads to greed, which ultimately leads to resentment and hatred, that is, the second situation you described.
The first you described is achievement; for some people, happiness is achievement, in whatever form it might be. And far from being greed (which is detrimental to the doer and non-doer), the need to achieve increases as one moves on.

Thanks!

Nice!

Its so good to see you hate being poor, illerate etc. A break from "poverty is good" kind of assumption.

Poverty is natural. I never claimed it to be "good".

[$tyli$h Executive]

Waiting to see what King replies. The debate is getting interesting with you two.

A pleasure to see that it interests you.

By the way, if you did not notice it, this is turning all philosophical. 

Exactly. But I did not forget to add a practical touch by making real-life comparisons.

Nah, there are many things people deserve but they don't have. Merit and achievement may be closely related, but the relationship they share might not always be positive or proportionate.
E.g. Bin Laden deserves to be locked, he isn't.

Bin Laden isn't locked because he is very skillful at avoiding his capture by NATO personnels. In other words, his remarkable skills of avoiding to get captured means that he does not, ultimately, deserve to get caught.

Hope that clears it. 

Poverty is natural. I never claimed it to be "good".

Poverty is never natural. Wealth and prosperity is a natural thing, but one has to achieve it.

[Alpha]

A pleasure to see that it interests you.

It's my topic, after all. 

Exactly. But I did not forget to add a practical touch by making real-life comparisons.

A concept in philosophy is called realism. 

Bin Laden isn't locked because he is very skillful at avoiding his capture by NATO personnels. In other words, his remarkable skills of avoiding to get captured means that he does not, ultimately, deserve to get caught.

That was a good reply.
But what if I say, you do not deserve to die, but ultimately, will have to?

Poverty is never natural. Wealth and prosperity is a natural thing, but one has to achieve it.

Maybe absolute poverty can be eradicated, but relative, can never be. And in the long term, this relative poverty will ultimately lead to absolute poverty. Poverty is a natural consequence of division of labour. Because people do not all perform the same, they are not all rewarded the same.

I hope I'm clear.

[$tyli$h Executive]

It's my topic, after all.  

At least, we're not diverting from the topic.

A concept in philosophy is called realism.

Fine. Then, we're being realistic.

That was a good reply.
But what if I say, you do not deserve to die, but ultimately, will have to?

I will die because of some problem (eg. heart failure because of atherosclerosis, kidney failure, or maybe road accident because I drove carelessly) Therefore, I, ultimately, deserve to die because of what I've done.

Hope its clear

Maybe absolute poverty can be eradicated, but relative, can never be. And in the long term, this relative poverty will ultimately lead to absolute poverty. Poverty is a natural consequence of division of labour. Because people do not all perform the same, they are not all rewarded the same.

I hope I'm clear.

I agree that relative poverty cannot be eradicated. But absolute can.

You can see that well in Mauritius I think. Aren't you and your family leading a much better life/are much more wealthy than you were 10 years ago? I'm sure you are. Every family is with a few exceptions. We are too.

The trend indicates that absolute poverty is being rapidly eradicated, regardless of any argument. ( )

[Alpha]

At least, we're not diverting from the topic.

Fine. Then, we're being realistic.

He admits.

I will die because of some problem (eg. heart failure because of atherosclerosis, kidney failure, or maybe road accident because I drove carelessly) Therefore, I, ultimately, deserve to die because of what I've done.

Hope its clear

Is there not something called "natural death"? 

I agree that relative poverty cannot be eradicated. But absolute can.

You can see that well in Mauritius I think. Aren't you and your family leading a much better life/are much more wealthy than you were 10 years ago?

The trend indicates that absolute poverty is being rapidly eradicated, regardless of any argument. ( )

You use a decade to compare, and are talking about "rapidly"... 


Absolute poverty... not relative. Therefore, poverty exists.